From socket at peakpeak.com Mon Aug 20 00:19:43 2001 From: socket at peakpeak.com (Chris Riddoch) Date: 20 Aug 2001 00:19:43 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! Message-ID: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> This should be a simple problem for someone. I hope. In XEmacs, I'm trying to make a string with a backslash before single quote. I want the output string to be this: "Can\'t" because the output will be passed as a string value to another program (thus needing quoting). "Can\'t" gives me "Can't", as I'd expect. "Can\\'t" gives me "Can\\'t", as I really *didn't* expect. "Can\\\'t" gives me "Can\\'t". "Can\\\\'t" gives me "Can\\\\'t", which leads me to think it's impossible to get a resulting string with any odd number of backslashes in it. It seems a horrible overkill to throw it into a regular expression, and please don't tell me to do something as ridiculous as: (concatenate 'string "Can" (char-to-string ?') "t") Someone, save me from this unnecessarily complicated quoting problem. Sheesh. -- Chris Riddoch | epistemological socket at peakpeak.com | humility From stimits at idcomm.com Mon Aug 20 00:53:57 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:53:57 -0600 Subject: [lug] off-topic, html Message-ID: <3B80B405.37B837E5@idcomm.com> Does anyone here happen to know the proper html tag format for an anchor to email address, using extended information? A typical tag for just plain email is: My Email I'm looking for a way to add in "CC" targets (multiple recipients), and subject. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From jstarkey at advancecreations.com Mon Aug 20 01:21:08 2001 From: jstarkey at advancecreations.com (John Starkey) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:21:08 -0600 Subject: [lug] off-topic, html In-Reply-To: <3B80B405.37B837E5@idcomm.com>; from stimits@idcomm.com on Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 12:53:57AM -0600 References: <3B80B405.37B837E5@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010820012108.B1568@advancecreations.com> I've never used it, but: <.a href="mailto:somewhere at nospam.com?cc=someotherwhere at spamcity.com&subject=whatever">Mail John Thus spake D. Stimits (stimits at idcomm.com): > Does anyone here happen to know the proper html tag format for an anchor > to email address, using extended information? A typical tag for just > plain email is: > My Email > > I'm looking for a way to add in "CC" targets (multiple recipients), and > subject. > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug -- John Starkey ColoradoParks.net Advance Creations From jeerygh at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 10:43:35 2001 From: jeerygh at hotmail.com (Greg Horne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:43:35 +0000 Subject: [lug] (no subject) Message-ID: I'm using AWStats (awstats.sourceforge.net) to report access for my customers that my company hosts. The program awstats.pl runs in the /cgi-bin directory which resides in the websites home directory. When it processes the websites log files it stores the result in /tmp/awstats/website. The directory /tmp/awstats/website has permissions 777 because when you go to http://website/cgi-bin/awstats.pl it will refresh (compile the logs into a file readable by AWStats) and save the statistics to /tmp/awstats/website. Does anybody use this program? Is there a way I can get it to run without the 777 permisions on the /tmp/awstats/website directory? Would I use a tag in the httpd.conf file to allow people to only write into /tmp/awstats/website with awstats log files? How would I do this. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Greg Horne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From jeerygh at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 10:51:27 2001 From: jeerygh at hotmail.com (Greg Horne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:51:27 +0000 Subject: [lug] (no subject)<--Subject is AWStats Message-ID: Heh, sorry I forgot to add the subject! >From: "Greg Horne" >Reply-To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us >To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us >Subject: [lug] (no subject) >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:43:35 +0000 > >I'm using AWStats (awstats.sourceforge.net) to report access for my >customers that my company hosts. The program awstats.pl runs in the >/cgi-bin directory which resides in the websites home directory. When it >processes the websites log files it stores the result in >/tmp/awstats/website. > >The directory /tmp/awstats/website has permissions 777 because when you go >to http://website/cgi-bin/awstats.pl it will refresh (compile the logs into >a file readable by AWStats) and save the statistics to >/tmp/awstats/website. > >Does anybody use this program? Is there a way I can get it to run without >the 777 permisions on the /tmp/awstats/website directory? Would I use a > tag in the httpd.conf file to allow people to only write into >/tmp/awstats/website with awstats log files? How would I do this. > >Any input would be greatly appreciated. > >Greg Horne > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >_______________________________________________ >Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us >Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From tromey at redhat.com Mon Aug 20 12:34:15 2001 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:34:15 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Chris Riddoch's message of "20 Aug 2001 00:19:43 -0600" References: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <87ae0utwbc.fsf@creche.redhat.com> >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Riddoch writes: Chris> "Can\\'t" gives me "Can\\'t", as I really *didn't* expect. You're being confused by the lisp printer. I tried this in *scratch*: (length "can\\'t") 6 The lisp printer will print a string in its quoted form. So the string consisting of a single backslash will be printed as: "\\" Tom From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 12:03:40 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:03:40 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Chris Riddoch's message of "20 Aug 2001 00:19:43 -0600" References: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Riddoch writes: Chris> In XEmacs, I'm trying to make a string with a backslash before Chris> single quote. I want the output string to be this: "Can\'t" Chris> because the output will be passed as a string value to another Chris> program (thus needing quoting). i think you might be confused by how you're *viewing* the output string. take a look at the two functions "princ" and "prin1", and you'll understand what i'm talking about: | (prin1 "Can\\'t\n") | "Can\\'t | ""Can\\'t | " | | (princ "Can\\'t\n") | Can\'t | "Can\\'t | " note that the actual value (as printed out by `princ') has only one backslash in it -- but the value returned to the user is one that the lisp reader could read back in, thus it has two backslashes. so, if you are just using a static string, you do want two backslashes. if you're doing anything with regexps, you have to remember that backslashes are special inside emacs' (and most other) regexps. so, you want the "true value" to be a doubled backslash -- the backslash is the quote/escape character, so you need to quote/escape it to get a literal backslash. so you end up doing things like this: (while (re-search-forward "Can\\\\'t" (point-max) t) ...) just as an aside, this is a place where you really start noticing the tradeoffs between regular, consistent, easy-to-parse languages (like lisp, python, tcl) and nasty, irregular, special-case-all-over-the- place languages (like perl). t. From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 12:05:46 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:05:46 -0600 Subject: [lug] off-topic, html In-Reply-To: "D. Stimits"'s message of "Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:53:57 -0600" References: <3B80B405.37B837E5@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "DS" == D Stimits writes: DS> Does anyone here happen to know the proper html tag format for an DS> anchor to email address, using extended information? http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2368.txt t. From aaron.crane at pobox.com Mon Aug 20 12:29:28 2001 From: aaron.crane at pobox.com (Aaron Crane) Date: 20 Aug 2001 19:29:28 +0100 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Chris Riddoch's message of "20 Aug 2001 00:19:43 -0600" References: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> Message-ID: Hi, Chris. Chris Riddoch writes: > In XEmacs, I'm trying to make a string with a backslash before single > quote. When you say "make a string", do you mean "write a string literal", or "write a function that takes a string as input and returns another (as output) in which any single-quote has been preceded by a backslash"? Executive summary: for option 1, use "can\\'t" and for option 2, use (defun backslashify-single-quotes (string) (replace-in-string string "'" "\\'" t)) You might also investigate whether `shell-quote-argument' meets your needs. Details below. > I want the output string to be this: "Can\'t" because the output will be > passed as a string value to another program (thus needing quoting). > > "Can\'t" gives me "Can't", as I'd expect. > > "Can\\'t" gives me "Can\\'t", as I really *didn't* expect. If you're getting the output by executing a string-valued expression interactively (either with M-: or in the *scratch* buffer), then remember that what gets printed out is a re-readable representation of the string itself. This re-readable representation uses the same syntax as an ordinary string literal. Within a string literal, a backslash will either disable the usual special interpretation of the following character, or enable an unusual special interpretation of it (depending on what the character is). In particular, note that the string whose literal syntax is "\\" contains a single backslash character.[1] How does this apply to what you want to do? If you have a string literal like "can't", there's nothing tricky, because no backslashes are involved. A literal like "can\\'t" behaves a little differently. When this gets read, the reader interprets the double-backslash as a request to put a single backslash in the string it's building -- the first backslash has escaped the special meaning of the backslash character. So your string actually contains _six_ characters: c a n \ ' t Similarly, in your first example, "can\'t", the backslash escapes any special meaning of the single quote character. In this case, there is no such special meaning, so the effect is the same as omitting the backslash from the literal entirely. Does that make sense? ____ 1. The full details can be found in the node `String Type' of the XEmacs info file named lispref (`C-h i m lispref RET g String SPC Type RET', or, if you're using Debian, `C-h i m xemacs21 RET m lispref RET g String SPC Type RET'. -- Aaron Crane From walter at frii.com Mon Aug 20 12:59:26 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:59:26 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20 Aug 2001, Tkil wrote: > if you're doing anything with regexps, you have to remember that > backslashes are special inside emacs' (and most other) regexps. so, > you want the "true value" to be a doubled backslash -- the backslash > is the quote/escape character, so you need to quote/escape it to get a > literal backslash. so you end up doing things like this: > > (while (re-search-forward "Can\\\\'t" (point-max) t) > ...) > > just as an aside, this is a place where you really start noticing the > tradeoffs between regular, consistent, easy-to-parse languages (like > lisp, python, tcl) and nasty, irregular, special-case-all-over-the- > place languages (like perl). Heyyyyyy, Tony . . . I resemble that remark. Anyway, I dunno if the nasty part refers to Perl regexes (no argument here -- they can give me headaches to look at, though they are pretty powerful) or the language's syntax flexibility (feature or a bug, you decide) to the escaping-from-hell stuff, which I avoid by using the qq & friends syntax. That is, instead of print "\"Foo!\""; # prints "Foo!" I'd use print qq{"Foo!"}; # prints "Foo!" If this area is of any interest, it's all covered in the perlop manpage in the "Quote and Quote-like Operators" section, including some pattern and regex stuff. In any case, it's all the fault of those backslashin' maniacs at Bell Labs and their band of fawning sycophants. Yeah, that's it... Walter "I say q{Tomato}." From tromey at redhat.com Mon Aug 20 14:43:05 2001 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:43:05 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Tkil's message of "20 Aug 2001 12:03:40 -0600" References: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <87u1z2h38m.fsf@creche.redhat.com> >>>>> "Tkil" == Tkil writes: Tkil> (while (re-search-forward "Can\\\\'t" (point-max) t) Tkil> ...) Tkil> just as an aside, this is a place where you really start Tkil> noticing the tradeoffs between regular, consistent, Tkil> easy-to-parse languages (like lisp, python, tcl) and nasty, Tkil> irregular, special-case-all-over-the- place languages (like Tkil> perl). I'm no fan of perl syntax! But regular expressions are one place that Perl made some nicer decisions than Emacs did. For instance in Perl you simply use `(.|.)' to do submatches with alternation. In Emacs you must use `$.\|.$' -- thus requiring extra quoting for the backslashes. Worse, Emacs functions like query-replace-regexp expose this to the user. Tom From jafo at tummy.com Mon Aug 20 15:45:18 2001 From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:45:18 -0600 Subject: [lug] software raid In-Reply-To: <3B807FFD.A21C0712@idcomm.com>; from stimits@idcomm.com on Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:11:57PM -0600 References: <200108200159.VAA24381@vecna.com> <3B807FFD.A21C0712@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010820154518.C13924@tummy.com> On Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 09:11:57PM -0600, D. Stimits wrote: >> > md0 : active raid1 hdc6[1] hda6[0] 80192 blocks [2/2] [UU] > >This does seem to imply that md0 exists on the combination of hdc6 and >hda6. So if it is formatted, you should be able to mount it. Have you The above is a sample I posted of a working RAID set. The original poster didn't have this, which implies that they probably don't have RAID configured. Sean -- Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die. -- Mel Brooks Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 15:44:38 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:44:38 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Tkil's message of "20 Aug 2001 12:03:40 -0600" References: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "Tkil" == tkil writes: Tkil> just as an aside, this is a place where you really start Tkil> noticing the tradeoffs between regular, consistent, Tkil> easy-to-parse languages (like lisp, python, tcl) and nasty, Tkil> irregular, special-case-all-over-the- place languages (like Tkil> perl). apparently i didn't include enough smilies. i thought enough people know i am a perl geek, and thus my comment was ironic (or close to it). the point i was driving at is a bit more abstract: should we force the programmer to be closer to the machine (which makes for languages that are easier for the computer to parse) or should we make allowances for the programmer (which makes the languages harder for the computer to parse). both Tom and Walter make good points. perl goes out of its way to give the programmer flexibility in quoting, at the cost of being very hard to parse correctly. emacs goes the other way: by making everything consistent and (relatively) simple to parse, you make the programmer work a bit harder, but you gain power by being able to manipulate the code as data. this distinction bleeds over to context- sensitive editors trying to indent or do syntax highlighting correctly; it's much easier to write a pretty printer for lisp than for perl... it's a tradeoff, and the wide range of languages shows that there's no one right answer. it's particularly touchy with regular expressions embedded within other languages (be it emacs-lisp or perl). regexps are essentially a little language with its own quoting rules. when we put this little language within a larger one, we have to deal with the containing language's quoting rules as well. the fact that regexps have dialects (grep, egrep, emacs, perl, etc) just makes things more interesting. Tom's points about the decisions made by the different regex packages about what should be quoted is a good example of the things that change among these dialects. Jeffrey Friedl's excellent book _Mastering Regular Expressions_ (O'Reilly) does a fantastic job at discussing all of these issues. so, in short, my comment about "special cases all over the place" was not meant to be particularly negative; rather, it was just high- lighting a trade-off that happened to be exposed by the discussion at hand. t. From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 15:50:59 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:50:59 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Tom Tromey's message of "20 Aug 2001 14:43:05 -0600" References: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> <87u1z2h38m.fsf@creche.redhat.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Tromey writes: Tom> For instance in Perl you simply use `(.|.)' to do submatches with Tom> alternation. In Emacs you must use `$.\|.$' -- thus requiring Tom> extra quoting for the backslashes. Worse, Emacs functions like Tom> query-replace-regexp expose this to the user. hm. well, parentheses are overloaded no matter what: they show up in code a lot, and they are used for submatches. the user would have to backwhack them in at least one of these cases; emacs only stands out because it chose differently from most other implementations. then again, there's probably some influence from lisp in there -- parens are so common that you want to be able to search for them easily (especially lisp-ish function calls). not sure if there's any documented justificiation for this decision, however. i find that switching between the different "roughly equivalent" subsets of regex functionality to be not too difficult (egrep, awk, emacs, perl). i happen to know the perl quoting rules rather better than those for the other tools, so i tend to rely on perl more often than not. there are also some things that perl regexes can do that the others can't, but i don't use those too often. of these, i do occasionally use the non-saving grouping operator in perl regexes. this allows you to have a group for constructing the regexps, but you don't save it for later use. it's the (?:...) bit; perldoc perlre. i haven't really found too much of a need for the other extensions, like look- aheads and such. t. From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 16:01:58 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 16:01:58 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Walter Pienciak's message of "Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:59:26 -0600 (MDT)" References: Message-ID: >>>>> "Walter" == Walter Pienciak writes: Walter> Anyway, I dunno if the nasty part refers to Perl regexes (no Walter> argument here -- they can give me headaches to look at, though Walter> they are pretty powerful) or the language's syntax flexibility Walter> (feature or a bug, you decide) [...] i was actually referring to how perl made the decision to have regexps as "first-class" constructs; compare to the more "regular" languages, which encode the regexps within strings, with the concomitant double quoting that started this discussion. the choice of which characters are "special" within regexps is largely orthogonal to the question of integration into the larger language; emacs treats "(", "|", and ")" as normal characters which must be backslashed to become special; since they are then encoded as strings, you have the double-quoting issue again. perl made different choices about special characters, and this happens to have a double benefit in this case. in most of my searches, i want to use parens and pipes as special characters, and perl happens to agree with me there. since i don't have to escape them to use them the way i like, i don't have to worry about double-quoting. perl goes further by having a parser that understands regexps as something other than double-quoted strings (which is what they mostly otherwise are parsed as, excepting constructs like "m''"!). even if you do have to escape or special-ize something within a perl regex, the parser guesses what you're doing, and you only have to backwhack it once. either way, i tend to view it mostly as a tradeoff. i don't like all the decisions made in either case, and both have given me fits at various times. in the case of emacs, i end up with stuff that looks like this: (while (re-search-forward (concat "^\\\"" ; beginning of line + initial quote "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; software bit "[\\\",]+" ; intervening commas and quotes "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; description ".*$") ; rest of line. (point-max) t) ; (replace-match (concat "part=\\1\n" " description=\\2\n")))))) on the flip side, my perl editor (xemacs + cperl) isn't as smart about regex quoting as perl is, so odd quotes and parens tend to break the syntax highlighting and automatic indentation. i usually end up just putting a backslash in front of the offending character, and accept the minor loss in readability in return for the advantages the syntax-senstive editor gives me. t. From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 16:17:48 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 16:17:48 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Tkil's message of "20 Aug 2001 16:01:58 -0600" References: Message-ID: just by way of comparison... given the emacs snippit in one of my messages: | (while (re-search-forward | (concat "^\\\"" ; beginning of line + initial quote | "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; software bit | "[\\\",]+" ; intervening commas and quotes | "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; description | ".*$") ; rest of line. | (point-max) t) ; | (replace-match (concat "part=\\1\n" | " description=\\2\n")))))) i thought it'd be interesting to do a perl version of it: | s/^"([^"]+)[",]+([^"]+).*$/part=$1\n description=$2\n/g; a relatively recent addition to perl allows you to comment a regex pattern, which is nice: | s/^" # beginning of line + initial quote | ([^"]+) # software bit | [",]+ # intervening commas and quotes | ([^"]+) # description | .*$ # rest of line | /part=$1\n description=$2\n/gx; this becomes particularly helpful when the patterns get out of control. here's a snippit from a cheesy HTML parser i wrote (when i was in a situation where i couldn't install HTML::Parser from CPAN): | if ($t =~ m{\G | ( # (whole thing is in $1) | <([^/]\w*) # start of tag ($2) | \s* | ((?: # attribute list ($3) | (?:[^>\s=]+ # the attribute itself | (?:\s*=\s* # maybe followed by an equals sign and | (?:\"[^\"]*\"| # double-quoted, or | \'[^\']*\'| # single-quoted, or | [^>\s]+) # plain value | )? # or maybe not. | \s* # and a bit of whitespace | ))*) # we can have 0 or more attributes | \s*>)}gcx) lots more fun and loving in "perldoc perlre". anyway. back to work... t. From dajo at frii.com Mon Aug 20 16:55:53 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:55:53 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: (message from Tkil on 20 Aug 2001 16:17:48 -0600) References: Message-ID: <200108202255.f7KMtrx01545@Rednose.Anthrax> I have found your comments on this subject to be very interesting (what do you do in your spare time =8-). There are two things that I should like to mention. First, I think that you have demonstrated that, if one has to get involved with nuts and bolts like this, then the syntax does not matter so much, because the subject immersion required means that one understands what is happening regardless of the syntax. Although I do accknowledge that, in your examples, the perl looks easier to read - that is one of the things that I find interesting. However, the second point is the important one - you actually write comments so that there is a clue to what is happening! This might even count as maintainable code. dajo > | (while (re-search-forward > | (concat "^\\\"" ; beginning of line + initial quote > | "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; software bit > | "[\\\",]+" ; intervening commas and quotes > | "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; description > | ".*$") ; rest of line. > | (point-max) t) ; > | (replace-match (concat "part=\\1\n" > | " description=\\2\n")))))) > > i thought it'd be interesting to do a perl version of it: > > | s/^"([^"]+)[",]+([^"]+).*$/part=$1\n description=$2\n/g; > > a relatively recent addition to perl allows you to comment a regex > pattern, which is nice: > > | s/^" # beginning of line + initial quote > | ([^"]+) # software bit > | [",]+ # intervening commas and quotes > | ([^"]+) # description > | .*$ # rest of line > | /part=$1\n description=$2\n/gx; > > this becomes particularly helpful when the patterns get out of > control. here's a snippit from a cheesy HTML parser i wrote (when i > was in a situation where i couldn't install HTML::Parser from CPAN): > > | if ($t =~ m{\G > | ( # (whole thing is in $1) > | <([^/]\w*) # start of tag ($2) > | \s* > | ((?: # attribute list ($3) > | (?:[^>\s=]+ # the attribute itself > | (?:\s*=\s* # maybe followed by an equals sign and > | (?:\"[^\"]*\"| # double-quoted, or > | \'[^\']*\'| # single-quoted, or > | [^>\s]+) # plain value > | )? # or maybe not. > | \s* # and a bit of whitespace > | ))*) # we can have 0 or more attributes > | \s*>)}gcx) From nunar at iws.net Mon Aug 20 18:35:46 2001 From: nunar at iws.net (Shannon Johnston) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming Message-ID: Hi All! I'm wondering if there's a way to get rid of spammers? I'm getting spam more and more often. I'm running my own mail server (Sendmail 8.11.3). Does anybody have any ideas? Shannon From hugh at vecna.com Mon Aug 20 17:45:37 2001 From: hugh at vecna.com (Hugh Brown) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming In-Reply-To: from "Shannon Johnston" at Aug 20, 2001 06:35:46 PM Message-ID: <200108202345.TAA02588@vecna.com> You can block domains that recur via /etc/mail/access (Redhat dists anyway) Most efforts require a fair amount of effort, sometimes it is easier to just delete the messages. Hugh "Shannon Johnston" > > Hi All! > I'm wondering if there's a way to get rid of spammers? I'm getting spam > more and more often. I'm running my own mail server (Sendmail 8.11.3). > Does anybody have any ideas? > > Shannon From dajo at frii.com Mon Aug 20 18:15:09 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:15:09 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: (message from Tkil on 20 Aug 2001 16:17:48 -0600) References: Message-ID: <200108210015.f7L0F9l01606@Rednose.Anthrax> Well, Tony, you really got me thinking about this regexp stuff. I do regexps every now and then and so I decided to write your example using my lisp library of regexp tools just to see what happened. Now I do not expect you to like this, nobody else does; but I thought you might find it interesting. For me the advantages are that I do not have to fight the escaping stuff again (I did it once); and I do not have to re-learn things that I have forgotten; and the outcome is that I make far fewer errors. This is evaluated code from my scratch buffer; yours first. Normally I do not put in the comments at the ends of the lines; the theory is that the function names are descriptive enough. (concat "^\\\"" ; beginning of line + initial quote "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; software bit "[\\\",]+" ; intervening commas and quotes "\$[^\\\"]+\$" ; description ".*$") ; rest of line. "^\\\"\$[^\\\"]+\$[\\\",]+\$[^\\\"]+\$.*$" (concat ;; beginning of line + initial quote (bas-regcomp-leading-anchor) ; "^" (bas-lispify-string (bas-codestring-quote)) ; "\\\"" see below ;; software bit (bas-regcomp-group-open) ; "\$" (bas-make-character-set (list ; "[^\\\"]" (bas-regcomp-diy-not) (bas-regcomp-quote))) (bas-regcomp-one-or-many) ; "+" (bas-regcomp-group-close) ; "\$" ;; intervening commas and quotes (bas-make-character-set (list ; "[\\\",]" (bas-regcomp-quote) (bas-codestring-comma))) (bas-regcomp-one-or-many) ; "+" ;; description (bas-regcomp-group-open) ; "\$" (bas-make-character-set (list ; "[^\\\"]" (bas-regcomp-diy-not) (bas-regcomp-quote))) (bas-regcomp-one-or-many) ; "+" (bas-regcomp-group-close) ; "\$" ;; rest of line. (bas-regcomp-any-character) ; "." (bas-regcomp-zero-or-many) ; "*" (bas-regcomp-trailing-anchor) ; "$" ) "^\\\"\$[^\\\"]+\$[\\\",]+\$[^\\\"]+\$.*$" ;;; Note that (bas-regcomp-quote) is defined as ;;; (bas-lispify-string (bas-codestring-quote)). Both are used above. dajo From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 18:54:09 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 18:54:09 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: David's message of "Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:15:09 -0600" References: <200108210015.f7L0F9l01606@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: >>>>> "dajo" == David writes: dajo> [...] so I decided to write your example using my lisp library dajo> of regexp tools just to see what happened. Now I do not expect dajo> you to like this, nobody else does; ha ha! :) dajo> but I thought you might find it interesting. For me the dajo> advantages are that I do not have to fight the escaping stuff dajo> again (I did it once); and I do not have to re-learn things that dajo> I have forgotten; and the outcome is that I make far fewer dajo> errors. fair enough. i've gone both ways; i end up finding that perl is dense enough to do what i want without writing another interface layer -- and, for me, writing good interfaces is *hard* -- so i usually do without. to put another way, i see the value in your little language -- but it's *another* language that i'd have to learn. then again, given that i like perl, the fact that i like the extreme terseness of regexps is hardly surprising... dajo> This is evaluated code from my scratch buffer; yours first. dajo> Normally I do not put in the comments at the ends of the lines; dajo> the theory is that the function names are descriptive enough. *nod* a lot of lisp programmers tend that way, and i don't have any particular quibble with it. i find that my brain works better with the mostly-procedural format of perl; perl does offer a few, very powerful, list-processing functions that let me do the occasional cascade in a lispy style... | # hooray for schwartzian transforms! | my @cat_order = | map { $_->[0] } | sort { $b->[1] <=> $a->[1] || $a->[0] cmp $b->[0] } | grep { $_->[1] >= 0 } | map | { | my $ci = $INFO->{category}->{$_}; | my $priority = $ci && $ci->{display} ? $ci->{display}->[0] | : 0; | [ $_, $priority ] | } | keys %valid_products; an interesting comparison between lisp and perl solutions to the same problem. it's cast as a sort of "programming contest" problem; if you want to try your hand at it, in whatever language you like, don't read the problem statement (or any of our solutions!) until you have a few hours free to work on it.: http://www-aig.jpl.nasa.gov/public/home/gat/ftp/study.txt my perl solution: http://slinky.scrye.com/~tkil/perl/phonecode and a lisp solution: http://www.norvig.com/java-lisp.html From tkil at scrye.com Mon Aug 20 23:49:11 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 20 Aug 2001 23:49:11 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: David's message of "Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:15:09 -0600" References: <200108210015.f7L0F9l01606@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: >>>>> "dajo" == dajo writes: dajo> (concat dajo> ;; beginning of line + initial quote dajo> (bas-regcomp-leading-anchor) ; "^" dajo> (bas-lispify-string (bas-codestring-quote)) ; "\\\"" see below dajo> ;; software bit dajo> (bas-regcomp-group-open) ; "\$" dajo> (bas-make-character-set (list ; "[^\\\"]" dajo> (bas-regcomp-diy-not) dajo> (bas-regcomp-quote))) dajo> (bas-regcomp-one-or-many) ; "+" dajo> (bas-regcomp-group-close) ; "\$" dajo> ;; intervening commas and quotes dajo> (bas-make-character-set (list ; "[\\\",]" dajo> (bas-regcomp-quote) dajo> (bas-codestring-comma))) dajo> (bas-regcomp-one-or-many) ; "+" dajo> ;; description dajo> (bas-regcomp-group-open) ; "\$" dajo> (bas-make-character-set (list ; "[^\\\"]" dajo> (bas-regcomp-diy-not) dajo> (bas-regcomp-quote))) dajo> (bas-regcomp-one-or-many) ; "+" dajo> (bas-regcomp-group-close) ; "\$" dajo> ;; rest of line. dajo> (bas-regcomp-any-character) ; "." dajo> (bas-regcomp-zero-or-many) ; "*" dajo> (bas-regcomp-trailing-anchor) ; "$" dajo> ) letting my mind wander, i see two things i'd change about this. first, i'd use scoping (let ...) to use shorter names (i like terseness!). (having full namespaces available would be nice, too; see below.) second, i'd use function calls of some sort to handle the groups and possibly the quantifiers. you already do this for creating charsets; i'd just suggest extending it for creating groups, and any other constructs that have to be "balanced". [1] it might also make the quantifiers a little more "readable", in a way: | (one-or-more (charset comma quote)) this flipping of the postfix to a prefix notation seems to fit better for reading code out loud (which, oddly enough, i've often found to be a good measure of self-documenting code). sick little monkey: i could even use this idea for a whole-line matcher. [2] Jeffrey Friedl also talks about standard patterns for dealing with matched delimiters such as quoted material; this type of functional building technique should be a near-perfect match for that. further magic would make use of macros for this, but my lisp is a bit too rusty to venture there. i suspect that most of the "mapconcat" stuff, in particular, could go away. taken together, this would allow for an interesting representation of the slightly tree-like nature of this particular regex. | (defun tkil-re-group (re) | (concat "\$" re "\$")) | | (defun tkil-re-charset (&rest chars) | (concat "[" (mapconcat 'identity chars "") "]")) | | (defun tkil-re-inverse-charset (&rest chars) | (concat "[^" (mapconcat 'identity chars "") "]")) | | (defun tkil-re-quantify (re min max) | (concat re | (cond ((and (equal min 0) (equal max 1)) "?") | ((and (equal min 0) (equal max 'infinity)) "*") | ((and (equal min 1) (equal max 1)) "") | ((and (equal min 1) (equal max 'infinity)) "+") | (t (concat "\\{" min "," max "\\}"))))) | | (defun tkil-re-silly () | (interactive) | (insert | (let ((quote "\\\"") | (comma ",") | (beginning-of-line "^") | (end-of-line "$") | (any-char ".")) | (concat beginning-of-line | quote | (tkil-re-group | (tkil-re-quantify | (tkil-re-inverse-charset quote) 1 'infinity)) | (tkil-re-quantify | (tkil-re-charset quote comma) 0 'infinity) | (tkil-re-group | (tkil-re-quantify | (tkil-re-inverse-charset quote) 1 'infinity)) | quote | (tkil-re-quantify any-char 0 'infinity ) | end-of-line)))) if we don't care about namespace pollution, we could strip the "tkil-re-" off the front of all the functions, and it becomes even more readable: | (concat beginning-of-line | quote | (group | (quantify | (inverse-charset quote) 1 'infinity)) | (quantify | (charset quote comma) 0 'infinity) | (group | (quantify | (inverse-charset quote) 1 'infinity)) | quote | (quantify any-char 0 'infinity ) | end-of-line)))) trying to go one step further, i hit an interface problem. i tried to create: | (defun tkil-re-match-one-of (&rest res) | (mapconcat 'identity res "\\|")) but should it force a grouping? to really match its name, it should; doing that would lose the one-to-one correspondence between "tkil-re-group" and submatches that we'd otherwise have. note that there's a workaround for this in perl: the (?:...) group-but-don't-save option. in a related vein, take a look at what Abigail did to generate a regular expression that matches (a superset of all) URLs. the background is at: http://www.foad.org/~abigail/Perl/url2.html the program is at: http://www.foad.org/~abigail/Perl/url3.pl and the actual output is at: http://www.foad.org/~abigail/Perl/url3.regex t. [1] this lets lisp scoping close things properly for you, instead of relying on the programmer to remember the appropriate closing tag. as a similar example, the perl CGI.pm module allows you to build up nested HTML with a similar trick: $Q->table( { -columns => 2, -border => 1, -rules => 'rows' }, $Q->Tr( { -valign => 'top' }, [ map $Q->td($_), [ $arch_label, $arch_control ], [ $model_label, $model_control ], [ $product_label, $product_control ] ] ) ), i haven't quite managed to get Tr(td([...])) to do what i want it to, but i think i'm just being dense. also, note that "Tr" is capitalized oddly because "tr" is a reserved word. [2] using this idea for matching lines, we add: | (defun tkil-re-whole-line (&rest res) | (concat "^" (mapconcat 'identity res "") "$")) and then change the main building code to be: | (tkil-re-whole-line | quote | (tkil-re-group | (tkil-re-quantify | (tkil-re-inverse-charset quote) 1 'infinity)) | (tkil-re-quantify | (tkil-re-charset quote comma) 0 'infinity) | (tkil-re-group | (tkil-re-quantify | (tkil-re-inverse-charset quote) 1 'infinity)) | quote | (tkil-re-quantify any-char 0 'infinity )) From blug-receive at mtbwr.net Tue Aug 21 00:44:09 2001 From: blug-receive at mtbwr.net (Samartha Deva) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:44:09 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010820225818.00b15878@pop.dnvr.qwest.net> True - it is a lot of effort initially to get it cleaned up. This may not be everyone's choice to do, here is what works for me: The problem is that email addresses are needed to stay in contact with others. If one email address is used for many important contacts and gets polluted, one has to either tolerate the spam or change the email address with all the contacts. Both options became unacceptable after doing this once. Filtering did not work for me because important emails got filtered out. My solution is to reduce the exposure of my email addresses to one contact. I am using my own email server (postfix) and started creating receive addresses for every contact I exchange email as virtual (postfix) email address. Nobody ever gets my real email address. Only throwaway virtual addresses are given out. For sending email, I use Eudora which allows me to have something like 100 personalities which I set up with the virtual email address used as "From" addresses. For example, this mailing list. The "from" address I am sending this post to blug, it is a virtual email address. If it ever gets polluted again, I do the following: a.) change the one polluted email address to something else - on blug - in my personalty in Eudora I am using for lug. b.) bounce the old address - by forwarding it to an non-existing account c.) also send it to another account where I can see what is still coming in. Result: I get virtually no spam and if I get it, I am in control, can stop it right away and identify the source. Experiences: With Ebay, I am on the third generation of email addresses. Same with a newsgroup I am posting. Some domain name registrar contact addresses got harvested also. With blug, I am on the second generation. Another mailing list address got harvested too and I am getting spam but have not yet gotten around changing it. Actually, it is nice to get spam once and a while ;-) What I cannot eliminate is the email address I have with my ISP and from there, I get a few a week which I paste into Spamcop right away. With Yahoo, I got annoyed by the email flag getting raised on the web site. One _has_ to have one from them when using my.yahoo. It was not possible to disable the email account. But they have a mailbox size limit of 6 M. Once can send emails of 1 M and after filling up 900 k over the limit, the email flag raises maybe once a month. Samartha Hi All! >I'm wondering if there's a way to get rid of spammers? I'm getting spam >more and more often. I'm running my own mail server (Sendmail 8.11.3). >Does anybody have any ideas? > >Shannon From maxl at squeep.com Tue Aug 21 04:13:39 2001 From: maxl at squeep.com (Steve T.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:13:39 -0600 Subject: [lug] Still more XEmacs. Message-ID: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> Yes, more excitement with XEmacs - lots of folks having problems with it lately, aren't there? This particular problem comes in several flavours - first, the most disturbing (which may possibly just be my XEmacs being silly). This would be the fact that XEmacs completely decides to ignore the site-init.el file, which I placed in what I thought would be the default location for it (/usr/X11R6/lib/xemacs-21.1.14/lisp/site-init.el), given that a file called site-load.el lives in the same directory. Surprise surprise, XEmacs loads neither of them on start! Considering that this is a (supposedly) carefully assembled package for Slackware, where should these files go? In any case, I found out about this error while working on something else - trying to get ilisp (5.11, the latest, I believe) to work in harmony with my system. I'm attempting to get it to work with a derivitive of CMUCL called SBCL (version 0.6.12) which is supposedly compatable with CMUCL, something that ilisp supports quite well. Whenever I invoke run-ilisp, there's a long pause, and then I get this: (In buffer *Output* - I assme this is from SBCL itself?) STYLE-WARNING: redefining ILISP-COMPILE in DEFUN debugger invoked on condition of type SB-KERNEL:READER-PACKAGE-ERROR: READER-ERROR at 1428 on #: package "LISP" not found Within the debugger, you can type HELP for help. At any command prompt (within the debugger or not) you can type (SB-EXT:QUIT) to terminate the SBCL (I can't see any more of this message - see below) (And in buffer *Warnings-Show*:) (2) (error/warning) Error in process filter: (error Variable binding depth exce\eds max-specpdl-size) At this point XEmacs decides to hang, quite happily. I've checked my system and can find no package that could possibly be this "LISP" package thing - does anybody know anything about it? I'm assuming it has something to do with a common SBCL package - does anybody else even use it? I'd just use CMUCL, but unfortunately, the one site I know of with source and binaries has been down for a month (the official FTP site at cons.org). If anybody knows of a mirror, I'd be appreciative. -Steve -- "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture." - Frank Zappa "If one studies too zealously, he risks losing his pants." - Einstein From gsexton at mhsoftware.com Tue Aug 21 07:06:31 2001 From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:06:31 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You might want to look at SpamBouncer http://www.spambouncer.org/ It's basically a great hairy chested procmail script to filter messages. It basically moves spams into separate folders that you can look over. I have been using it for around a month and it catches 95% or more. Unfortunately, it also will catch legitimate stuff so you have to fine tune it using exception lists. Still, it's much more complete than attempting to roll your own. -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us]On Behalf Of Shannon Johnston Sent: 20 August, 2001 6:36 PM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming Hi All! I'm wondering if there's a way to get rid of spammers? I'm getting spam more and more often. I'm running my own mail server (Sendmail 8.11.3). Does anybody have any ideas? Shannon _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dradom at redback.com Tue Aug 21 08:12:09 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:12:09 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010821081209.B881@saturn.enron.net> here's what i've done. using sendmail's virtusertable i've aliased devnull at domain.com to my user account. when i need to give some web site my email address i use that, which is procmail'd to /dev/null... :0: * ^TO_devnull at radom.org /dev/null i also use sendmail's access feature to block the messages from persistant idiots... x10.com "550 Sorry. UCE (SPAM) is not accepted here." rebuilding the access.db is as easy as... cd /to/where/access/is; makemap hash access < access this combo gets most of it, and the rest i just delete. i hope some of this helps, dan * Shannon Johnston (nunar at iws.net) wrote: > Hi All! > I'm wondering if there's a way to get rid of spammers? I'm getting spam > more and more often. I'm running my own mail server (Sendmail 8.11.3). From gsexton at mhsoftware.com Tue Aug 21 08:34:25 2001 From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:34:25 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming In-Reply-To: <20010821081209.B881@saturn.enron.net> Message-ID: You can directly alias to /dev/null I have an alias (bitbucket at mhsoftware.com) in the aliases file it's just: bitbucket: /dev/null -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us]On Behalf Of dan radom Sent: 21 August, 2001 8:12 AM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] Constant Spamming here's what i've done. using sendmail's virtusertable i've aliased devnull at domain.com to my user account. when i need to give some web site my email address i use that, which is procmail'd to /dev/null... :0: * ^TO_devnull at radom.org /dev/null i also use sendmail's access feature to block the messages from persistant idiots... x10.com "550 Sorry. UCE (SPAM) is not accepted here." rebuilding the access.db is as easy as... cd /to/where/access/is; makemap hash access < access this combo gets most of it, and the rest i just delete. i hope some of this helps, dan * Shannon Johnston (nunar at iws.net) wrote: > Hi All! > I'm wondering if there's a way to get rid of spammers? I'm getting spam > more and more often. I'm running my own mail server (Sendmail 8.11.3). _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dradom at redback.com Tue Aug 21 08:40:55 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:40:55 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming In-Reply-To: References: <20010821081209.B881@saturn.enron.net> Message-ID: <20010821084055.C881@saturn.enron.net> yes. that is true, but i prefer the procmail log format over the traditional maillog...plus i've got some procmail perl scripts that do nifty things with my procmail log. dan * George Sexton (gsexton at mhsoftware.com) wrote: > You can directly alias to /dev/null From kkinder at tridog.com Tue Aug 21 08:45:58 2001 From: kkinder at tridog.com (Ken Kinder) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:45:58 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming References: Message-ID: <3B827426.DFEED126@tridog.com> My system is simple. I get an account at spamcop.net. I have my own domain, so ken at kenkinder.com is my email address. I forward that directly to my spamcop account, spamcop filtered the email, then sends to to another secret account at kenkinder.com, something like spamfree at kenkinder.com -- that being the pop box I check. Shannon Johnston wrote: > > Hi All! > I'm wondering if there's a way to get rid of spammers? I'm getting spam > more and more often. I'm running my own mail server (Sendmail 8.11.3). > Does anybody have any ideas? > > Shannon > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dradom at redback.com Tue Aug 21 08:55:37 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:55:37 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming In-Reply-To: <3B827426.DFEED126@tridog.com> References: <3B827426.DFEED126@tridog.com> Message-ID: <20010821085537.D881@saturn.enron.net> the thought of a third party filtering my email scares me. maybe i'm just paraniod. what happens if you get pgp mail? does it pass that through automatically? * Ken Kinder (kkinder at tridog.com) wrote: > My system is simple. I get an account at spamcop.net. I have my own > domain, so ken at kenkinder.com is my email address. I forward that > directly to my spamcop account, spamcop filtered the email, then sends > to to another secret account at kenkinder.com, something like > spamfree at kenkinder.com -- that being the pop box I check. From kkinder at tridog.com Tue Aug 21 08:58:22 2001 From: kkinder at tridog.com (Ken Kinder) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:58:22 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming References: <3B827426.DFEED126@tridog.com> <20010821085537.D881@saturn.enron.net> Message-ID: <3B82770E.4F850479@tridog.com> It doesn't to my knowledge but you can set up a list of trust email addresses. It basicly makes spam reporting easy more than it filters. I don't have the strict filtering rules -- only reported spam is filtered. But, it does stick a URL in the mail headers I can click on to quicly and easily report spamification. dan radom wrote: > > the thought of a third party filtering my email scares me. maybe i'm just paraniod. what happens if you get pgp mail? does it pass that through automatically? > > * Ken Kinder (kkinder at tridog.com) wrote: > > My system is simple. I get an account at spamcop.net. I have my own > > domain, so ken at kenkinder.com is my email address. I forward that > > directly to my spamcop account, spamcop filtered the email, then sends > > to to another secret account at kenkinder.com, something like > > spamfree at kenkinder.com -- that being the pop box I check. > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From ed at telesto-eng.com Tue Aug 21 09:16:56 2001 From: ed at telesto-eng.com (Ed) Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:16:56 -0600 Subject: [lug] Constant Spamming In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010820225818.00b15878@pop.dnvr.qwest.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010820225818.00b15878@pop.dnvr.qwest.net> Message-ID: >>>>> "S" == Samartha Deva writes: S> True - it is a lot of effort initially to get it cleaned up. S> This may not be everyone's choice to do, here is what works for S> me: S> The problem is that email addresses are needed to stay in S> contact with others. S> If one email address is used for many important contacts and S> gets polluted, one has to either tolerate the spam or change S> the email address with all the contacts. S> Both options became unacceptable after doing this once. I use emacs Gnus to read mail. It allows me to split incomming mail into various groups based on emacs regexps, and then it treats them as newsgroups. I have a newsgroup for friends and family, and when I see that it has something, I go there right away and check it out. My "other" group ends up with all the mail not already idendified, this is 99% spam. I check it every few days to see if anything important got in. This works great and now I don't even worry about my email address getting out there. Its all painless. Ed -- Telesto Engineering - www.telesto-eng.com - Embedded programming consultants. From caldodge at fpcc.net Tue Aug 21 09:10:39 2001 From: caldodge at fpcc.net (Calvin Dodge) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:10:39 -0600 Subject: [lug] Kingston Switching Hubs In-Reply-To: <3B82770E.4F850479@tridog.com>; from kkinder@tridog.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 08:58:22AM -0600 References: <3B827426.DFEED126@tridog.com> <20010821085537.D881@saturn.enron.net> <3B82770E.4F850479@tridog.com> Message-ID: <20010821091039.A8518@aberdeen.fpcc.net> I see a number of online stores have a sale on Kingston 10/100 network switches - $90 for a 16-port switch is a typical price. Does anyone here have experience with this brand of switch? Is it reliable, or is it more like the SMC 10/100 hub at my previous employer? (it would go catatonic every month or so) Calvin -- Calvin Dodge Certified Linux Bigot (tm) http://www.caldodge.fpcc.net From dradom at redback.com Tue Aug 21 09:22:43 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:22:43 -0600 Subject: [lug] sh and expect Message-ID: <20010821092243.E881@saturn.enron.net> I've written a few scripts for a customer that run from cron and backup Redback Networks SMS product configuration files to a tftp server up to 5 times a day, and I'm not really happy with the they run. I'm looking for suggestions, and my ultimate goal is for both sh and expect commands to live in one single file. Here's what I've got so far... ... cat sms-hosts xxx.xxx.xxx.001 xxx.xxx.xxx.002 and so on ... cat redback-multihost-tftp.backup #!/bin/sh TARGET=/tftpboot/backup-config for x in `cat /SCRIPTS-REDBACK/sms-hosts` do FILE=$TARGET/sms-$x-`date '+%Y-%m-%d'` if [ -f $FILE ]; then mv $FILE.4 $FILE.5 mv $FILE.3 $FILE.4 mv $FILE.2 $FILE.3 mv $FILE.1 $FILE.2 mv $FILE.0 $FILE.1 mv $FILE $FILE.0 fi touch $FILE chmod 666 $FILE done for x in `cat /SCRIPTS-REDBACK/sms-hosts` do exec redback-multihost-tftp.exp $x `date '+%Y-%m-%d'` & done ... cat redback-multihost-tftp.exp #!/usr/local/bin/expect # spawn telnet [lindex $argv 0] expect "Username:" send "user\@local\r" sleep 1 expect "assword:" send "passhere\r" sleep 1 expect ">" send "enable\r" sleep 1 expect "assword:" send "passhere\r" sleep 1 expect ">" send "save conf tftp://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/backup-config/sms-[lindex $argv 0]-[lindex $argv 1]\r" expect ">" sleep 1 send "exit\r" The scripts function as expected, but I would rather not have to use 3 files to accomplish this. The sms-hosts file can be easily done away with, but I'm not sure on how to run the expect commands from a #!/bin/sh script. Any thoughts or suggestions? Dan From James_Harris at maxtor.com Tue Aug 21 09:34:47 2001 From: James_Harris at maxtor.com (Harris, James) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:34:47 -0600 Subject: [lug] software raid Message-ID: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD760@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> The personalities line does indicate that RAID is setup, but, as Sean had said, if you have proc/mdstat, you have software RAID support in the kernel. Software RAID is composed of two major pieces, the low level RAID support in the kernel (can not be built as a module), and then each level of RAID or, "personalities". These personalities are the RAID levels 0,1,4,5, and hybrids. Each personality can be compiled into the kernel directly, or it can be built as a module. For example, if you want to boot your system off of a mirror, then you'll need to compile the raid1 personality directly into the kernel (this may vary by distro and version of RAID, i.e. you can do it using an image and a module, but in my opinion it's still not truly a redundant disk system when you do it that way.) This allows you to boot the root off the mirror set directly without having to go through the hoops of old. Anyway, then if you wanted to have a large raid5 for data, you could compile the raid5 personality as a module instead of directly into the kernel, allowing you to load the module before mounting the array without having to take up kernel space. If you're looking for more information the Software RAID How-TO is very cool. I find it very concise and easy to grasp onto. I'd highly recommend checking it out. Unfortunately either linuxdoc.org is down, or our link is cranky, so I can't give you a link directly to the doc, but you know where to find it. ;) Jim -----Original Message----- From: Hugh Brown [mailto:hugh at vecna.com] Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 19:59 To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] software raid So does the Personalities line just mean that the kernel is capable of dealing with raid if I wanted to set it up? Hugh "Sean Reifschneider" > > On Sat, Aug 18, 2001 at 12:16:10PM -0400, Hugh Brown wrote: > >cat /proc/mdstat gives > > If software RAID is active, /proc/mdstat will show the drives you have set > up: > > Personalities : [raid1] > read_ahead 1024 sectors > md0 : active raid1 hdc6[1] hda6[0] 80192 blocks [2/2] [UU] > md1 : active raid1 hdc1[1] hda1[0] 2048192 blocks [2/2] [UU] > md2 : active raid1 hdc5[1] hda5[0] 264960 blocks [2/2] [UU] > md3 : active raid1 hdc7[1] hda7[0] 17647296 blocks [2/2] [UU] > unused devices: > > In this case there are 4 RAID1 partitions set up. > _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From sanders at MontanaLinux.Org Tue Aug 21 09:40:14 2001 From: sanders at MontanaLinux.Org (Warren Sanders) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Kingston Switching Hubs In-Reply-To: <20010821091039.A8518@aberdeen.fpcc.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Calvin Dodge wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:10:39 -0600 > From: Calvin Dodge > Reply-To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > Subject: [lug] Kingston Switching Hubs > > I see a number of online stores have a sale on Kingston 10/100 network switches - $90 for a 16-port switch is a typical price. > > Does anyone here have experience with this brand of switch? Is it reliable, or is it more like the SMC 10/100 hub at my previous employer? (it would go catatonic every month or so) Gee I hope the SMCs (16 port switch) we just got for $200 each don't do that! > > Calvin > -- Warren Sanders http://MontanaLinux.Org From hugh at vecna.com Tue Aug 21 09:54:28 2001 From: hugh at vecna.com (Hugh Brown) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:54:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [lug] software raid In-Reply-To: from "Harris, James" at Aug 21, 2001 09:34:47 AM Message-ID: <200108211554.LAA09378@vecna.com> Thanks for the info. The description of personalities was lacking in the Software RAID how to (or I am blind, which is entirely possible). I actually read the manual before asking this time. :) Thanks again for the description of the process. Hugh "Harris, James" > > The personalities line does indicate that RAID is setup, but, as Sean had > said, if you have proc/mdstat, you have software RAID support in the kernel. > > Software RAID is composed of two major pieces, the low level RAID support in > the kernel (can not be built as a module), and then each level of RAID or, > "personalities". These personalities are the RAID levels 0,1,4,5, and > hybrids. Each personality can be compiled into the kernel directly, or it > can be built as a module. > > For example, if you want to boot your system off of a mirror, then you'll > need to compile the raid1 personality directly into the kernel (this may > vary by distro and version of RAID, i.e. you can do it using an image and a > module, but in my opinion it's still not truly a redundant disk system when > you do it that way.) This allows you to boot the root off the mirror set > directly without having to go through the hoops of old. Anyway, then if you > wanted to have a large raid5 for data, you could compile the raid5 > personality as a module instead of directly into the kernel, allowing you to > load the module before mounting the array without having to take up kernel > space. > > If you're looking for more information the Software RAID How-TO is very > cool. I find it very concise and easy to grasp onto. I'd highly recommend > checking it out. Unfortunately either linuxdoc.org is down, or our link is > cranky, so I can't give you a link directly to the doc, but you know where > to find it. ;) > > Jim From caldodge at fpcc.net Tue Aug 21 10:38:41 2001 From: caldodge at fpcc.net (Calvin Dodge) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:38:41 -0600 Subject: [lug] Kingston Switching Hubs In-Reply-To: ; from sanders@MontanaLinux.Org on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:40:14AM -0600 References: <20010821091039.A8518@aberdeen.fpcc.net> Message-ID: <20010821103841.A8710@aberdeen.fpcc.net> A minor correction ... I've defamed the good name of SMC. The problem we had was with a _Linksys_ hub. We _did_ have an SMC 10-mbit hub die when a component blew (leaving a fine spray of carbon on the circuit board), but that may have been a reaction to a major power surge. Calvin -- Calvin Dodge Certified Linux Bigot (tm) http://www.caldodge.fpcc.net From dajo at frii.com Tue Aug 21 10:54:15 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:54:15 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: (message from Tkil on 20 Aug 2001 23:49:11 -0600) References: <200108210015.f7L0F9l01606@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <200108211654.f7LGsF101378@Rednose.Anthrax> > letting my mind wander, i see two things i'd change about this. > first, i'd use scoping (let ...) to use shorter names (i like > terseness!). (having full namespaces available would be nice, too; > see below.) > > second, i'd use function calls of some sort to handle the groups and > possibly the quantifiers. you already do this for creating charsets; > i'd just suggest extending it for creating groups, and any other > constructs that have to be "balanced". [1] it might also make the > quantifiers a little more "readable", in a way: I agree with a lot of what you write, I need to re-read the rest to understand it. In fact I do the things above to some degree already. If you (and this is open to others on the list) would like to pursue the design and implementation of a regexp package for emacs (maybe it could become language independent) then I would be interested in taking part. I am sure that we disagree enough to push a boundary or two. * we need to get off this list * we need to be sure that it has not been done already * no time pressure - it must be done as is convenient * it will be a sizable task: > and, for me, writing good interfaces is *hard* ... * first task: specify objective and scope ... dajo From dajo at frii.com Tue Aug 21 11:15:50 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:15:50 -0600 Subject: [lug] Still more XEmacs. In-Reply-To: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> (maxl@squeep.com) References: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> Message-ID: <200108211715.f7LHFoX01402@Rednose.Anthrax> > Yes, more excitement with XEmacs - lots of folks having problems with it lately, > aren't there? yes they are. But it should be noted that in two recent cases one turned out to be a keyboard mapping problem in a Linux distribution; and the other was a case of someone not understanding the intricacies and difficulties with hosting regular expressions. I use GNU emacs, and never have used xemacs; but with that caveat: > This particular problem comes in several flavours - first, the most disturbing > (which may possibly just be my XEmacs being silly). This would be the fact > that XEmacs completely decides to ignore the site-init.el file, which I placed > in what I thought would be the default location for it (/usr/X11R6/lib/xemacs-21.1.14/lisp/site-init.el), given that a file called site-load.el lives in the > same directory. Surprise surprise, XEmacs loads neither of them on start! > Considering that this is a (supposedly) carefully assembled package for > Slackware, where should these files go? I put something in site-lisp a few weeks ago with the same nothing result. It turned out I had used the wrong directory. I forget the rest, but you might investigate you machine from that point of view. Here is what I get. Rednose root /usr find . -name site-lisp -print ./local/share/emacs/20.7/site-lisp ./local/share/emacs/site-lisp ./share/emacs/site-lisp It happens that I have been caught by the cons.org site being down, too. I have been unable to get ilisp and cmucl. Fortunately, I am able to use another distribution, although still I am lacking ilisp. > READER-ERROR at 1428 on # for "file \"/usr/X11R6/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/l\isp/ilisp/cmulisp.lisp\"" > {9196EDD}>: > package "LISP" not found have you looked in the file to see what you can glean? > (2) (error/warning) Error in process filter: (error Variable binding depth exce\eds max-specpdl-size) this looks to be an emacs message, as a rule this indicates a problem causing a run-away; but it can mean heavy duty processing. User Option Information max-specpdl-size *Limit on number of Lisp variable bindings & unwind-protects. If Lisp code tries to make more than this many at once, an error is signaled. value: 1000 Try increasing the value of max-specpdl-size with (setq max-specpdl-size 10000) From stimits at idcomm.com Tue Aug 21 11:28:13 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:28:13 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? Message-ID: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call available. The original crypt() one-way hash does not use md5, but most of the linux distro's now use md5 (or make it available) for passwords. Is this possibly built into the libpam library? I'm trying to find a C function call to do this, without invoking a "system()" call. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From gsexton at mhsoftware.com Tue Aug 21 11:38:20 2001 From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:38:20 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? In-Reply-To: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> Message-ID: This is probably overkill, but I am sure that OpenSSL has MD5 functions built in. -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us]On Behalf Of D. Stimits Sent: 21 August, 2001 11:28 AM To: BLUG Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call available. The original crypt() one-way hash does not use md5, but most of the linux distro's now use md5 (or make it available) for passwords. Is this possibly built into the libpam library? I'm trying to find a C function call to do this, without invoking a "system()" call. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From herod at interact-tv.com Tue Aug 21 11:57:18 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:57:18 -0600 Subject: [lug] world-readable ifcfg-eth0 Message-ID: <3B82A0FE.2710F3CB@interact-tv.com> Hello, Is there any reason to keep ifcfg-eth0 from being world readable? I'm working on a UI to set networking parameters and will use setuid to set the data but was hoping to simply read data from the file when pre-populating the form. Scott From rotering at animalcules.com Tue Aug 21 12:08:07 2001 From: rotering at animalcules.com (rotering at animalcules.com) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:08:07 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? In-Reply-To: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com>; from stimits@idcomm.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 11:28:13AM -0600 References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 11:28:13AM -0600, D. Stimits wrote: > I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among > linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call > available. OpenSSL (as of 0.9.6a) contains functions to compute several different message digests, including md5. The driver for /dev/random (/usr/src/linux/drivers/char/random.c) also contains a commonly-available implementation of MD5. Depending on your personal boredom quotient, implementing MD5 from RFC 1321 without peeking at existing implementations is fun. I did this for a napster client I was working on (before Napster went effectively Tango Utah) and learned a lot about bitwise operators and how to write bad preprocessor macros (I stopped when I produced valid checksums for files >= 516 bytes assuming I'd never see an mp3 file smaller than that). It's only about 225 lines and it's not rocket science, so rolling your own is an option if you're not willing to use the PD implementations out there. From tkil at scrye.com Tue Aug 21 12:10:54 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:10:54 -0600 Subject: [lug] Still more XEmacs. In-Reply-To: "Steve T."'s message of "Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:13:39 -0600" References: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> Message-ID: >>>>> "Steve" == Steve T writes: Steve> XEmacs completely decides to ignore the site-init.el file, Steve> which I placed in what I thought would be the default location Steve> for it (/usr/X11R6/lib/xemacs-21.1.14/lisp/site-init.el), given Steve> that a file called site-load.el lives in the same directory. Steve> Surprise surprise, XEmacs loads neither of them on start! Steve> Considering that this is a (supposedly) carefully assembled Steve> package for Slackware, where should these files go? on kevin's box (redhat 7.1): | $ find /usr -name 'site-*.el' -print | /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.el | /usr/share/xemacs-21.1.14/lisp/site-load.el | /usr/share/xemacs-21.1.14/lisp/site-start.el where did you get that X11R6 bit? oh, that's probably where slackware puts it ... silly, since (despite its name) xemacs isn't dependent on X Windows. as for documentation on where to look, the lispref info file describes it in the node "(lispref)Start-up Summary". they refer to loading libraries, which seems to imply that it looks through your load-path. you could also go outside of xemacs. strace the xemacs startup and see what files it looks at. Steve> I'd just use CMUCL, but unfortunately, the one site I know of Steve> with source and binaries has been down for a month (the Steve> official FTP site at cons.org). If anybody knows of a mirror, Steve> I'd be appreciative. well, the web site at cons.org seems to be up. i did a google search for "cmucl ilisp mirror download" and it returned www.laas.fr, but then it redirected me to cons.org -- and it came up. then again, i'm behind a caching proxy, so it might just have a very old copy. no, it just worked fine. is it just the FTP side that is broken? t. From tromey at redhat.com Tue Aug 21 12:44:50 2001 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:44:50 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: Tkil's message of "20 Aug 2001 15:44:38 -0600" References: <87d75rb6dc.fsf@peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <877kvxs15p.fsf@creche.redhat.com> >>>>> "Tkil" == Tkil writes: Tkil> it's particularly touchy with regular expressions embedded within Tkil> other languages (be it emacs-lisp or perl). regexps are essentially Tkil> a little language with its own quoting rules. when we put this little Tkil> language within a larger one, we have to deal with the containing Tkil> language's quoting rules as well. I've heard that in Guile they've considered introducing a more schemey regexp syntax, perhaps something like David's. Back when I was interested in Guile, I lobbied for regular expressions to be treated like ordinary scheme procedures. That is, you would compile a regular expression, and the object you got back would be an ordinary scheme function. You'd never have to apply a regular expression with something like Emacs' string-match. That is, instead of: (let ((compiled (regexp-compile "^.*$"))) (string-match compiled "foo")) you would just write something like: (let ((compiled (regexp-compile "^.*$"))) (compiled "foo")) The observation here is that a compiled regular expression is just a certain sort of closure. This becomes even more obvious if you use a more scheme-like syntax for the expression itself. The Guile guys didn't like this though. They thought it was "too cute". I still think it is the scheme way though :-) Tom From tdet at sec.noaa.gov Tue Aug 21 12:12:19 2001 From: tdet at sec.noaa.gov (Thomas R. Detman) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:12:19 -0600 Subject: [lug] Re: portable md5 function? References: Message-ID: <3B82A483.2D93847D@sec.noaa.gov> My Red Hat (KRUD 7.0) system contains '/usr/bin/md5sum', but the date on it is Aug 30 2000, so I think it may have been part of KRUD 6.2+. Anyway, if I type 'md5sum /usr/bin/md5sum', it says: 'e0bf91d478e6ecf512922c91544a74ba /usr/bin/md5sum', is that what you're looking for? From tkil at scrye.com Tue Aug 21 12:13:57 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:13:57 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? In-Reply-To: "D. Stimits"'s message of "Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:28:13 -0600" References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "DS" == D Stimits writes: DS> I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least DS> among linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function DS> call available. depending on what you're using these for, the perl MD5 module might be helpful. i'm not sure how much extra magic you have to add to do hashes the same way that the PAM stuff does, tho. t. From ramsay at euclid.Colorado.EDU Tue Aug 21 12:17:36 2001 From: ramsay at euclid.Colorado.EDU (Arlan Ramsay) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] RedHat 7.1 installation Message-ID: I wanted to install it in order to get an easy firewall. The installation seemed to go smoothly. That program had no problems with its graphics displays. I was going to use Gnome. I have tried a text login and then run startx, and also a graphics login. Both ways give me one screen with a small terminal window, no pager. I don't know what window manager it is, but evidently not sawfish or fvwmx, twm, or any others I recognize. The second (or third) time I installed it, I was careful to specify the exact video card (Diamond Stealth 3D 2000) and monitor (Viewsonic A70). These were working just fine under the RH6.0 or 6.2 that I had before. It seems unlikely but possible that my video card has a flaw. What else? All advice gratefully recieved. This is on my home machine. Arlan Ramsay ***************************************************************** Arlan Ramsay Department of Mathematics 395 UCB University of Colorado, Boulder Telephone 303-492-7148 Fax 303-492-7707 ramsay at euclid.colorado.edu From sanders at MontanaLinux.Org Tue Aug 21 12:37:00 2001 From: sanders at MontanaLinux.Org (Warren Sanders) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] RedHat 7.1 installation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Arlan Ramsay wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:17:36 -0600 (MDT) > From: Arlan Ramsay > Reply-To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > To: Boulder Linux Users Group > Subject: [lug] RedHat 7.1 installation > > > I wanted to install it in order to get an easy firewall. The > installation seemed to go smoothly. That program had no problems > with its graphics displays. I was going to use Gnome. I have > tried a text login and then run startx, and also a graphics login. > Both ways give me one screen with a small terminal window, no pager. > I don't know what window manager it is, but evidently not sawfish > or fvwmx, twm, or any others I recognize. > > The second (or third) time I installed it, I was careful to specify > the exact video card (Diamond Stealth 3D 2000) and monitor (Viewsonic > A70). These were working just fine under the RH6.0 or 6.2 that I had > before. > > It seems unlikely but possible that my video card has a flaw. What > else? All advice gratefully recieved. This is on my home machine. > > Arlan Ramsay > > ***************************************************************** > Arlan Ramsay > Department of Mathematics > 395 UCB > University of Colorado, Boulder > Telephone 303-492-7148 > Fax 303-492-7707 > ramsay at euclid.colorado.edu > After installing, I had tried out different Window Managers. There was one that simply did nothing and showed nothing. Seems it was Sawfish~ Anyway it may have been the set default window manager possibly? Check the archives from past couple weeks; there was a console command to set the default wm -- Warren Sanders http://MontanaLinux.Org From tkil at scrye.com Tue Aug 21 12:36:13 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:36:13 -0600 Subject: [lug] XEmacs quoting madness! In-Reply-To: David's message of "Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:54:15 -0600" References: <200108210015.f7L0F9l01606@Rednose.Anthrax> <200108211654.f7LGsF101378@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: >>>>> "dajo" == dajo writes: dajo> I agree with a lot of what you write, I need to re-read the rest dajo> to understand it. In fact I do the things above to some degree dajo> already. dajo> If you (and this is open to others on the list) would like to dajo> pursue the design and implementation of a regexp package for dajo> emacs (maybe it could become language independent) then I would dajo> be interested in taking part. i think that you're discussing writing a regex-generating package, yes? that's a bit different from saying "regex package", which tends to imply (at least to my ears) that you're implementing a regex engine. i'd probably not be interested in such a package, for the simple reason that i don't think i could improve over the fundamental regex syntax. (it might also be that i'm sufficiently immersed that i think even wretched syntax is as good as it gets, since i do understand it.) in cases where i need more help assembling regexps, the languages i use offer lightweight support for doing so. admittedly, there's a small amount of code duplication that goes on here; if i used it often, i'd consider packaging it. but that's the trick: i don't use it often enough to allocate neurons to learning yet another regex dialect. on the other hand, it might be useful for "translating" regexps from one dialect to another; as Tom points out, there's the completely equivalent forms of "(", "|", and ")" that are just written differently in perl or emacs regexps. then again, how do you translate features from one engine to one that doesn't support those features? i'm thinking of the perl extensions: non-saving groups, non-greedy quantifiers, limited case (in)sensitivity, etc. i don't think there's anything wrong with the idea, really; note that i used "i" everywhere above, because i'm aware that this is all my opinion. dajo> I am sure that we disagree enough to push a boundary or two. a most diplomatic way of phrasing it. :) anyway. i don't think i'm interested in spending much time on this, but i'd be curious to see what you come up with if you do go down this path. in a similar vein, there are a few "sql query builders" available for perl; i find that they're generally more annoying to use than raw SQL, but they probably would have saved me much time when i migrated from informix to oracle -- the thought of being able to just mark a table as "outer", without having to change all the conditions in a join, is a nice one. again, though, we have the feature mismatch: temp tables are managed very differently between these two databases, and outer joins can be finer-grained in oracle than in informix. *shrug* t. From dajo at frii.com Tue Aug 21 13:24:04 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:24:04 -0600 Subject: [lug] Still more XEmacs. In-Reply-To: (message from Tkil on 21 Aug 2001 12:10:54 -0600) References: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> Message-ID: <200108211924.f7LJO4G01611@Rednose.Anthrax> > well, the web site at cons.org seems to be up. i did a google search Neither of us wrote the whole truth =(8-o - cons.org is up, and has been for the whole time that I have been trying to get ilisp. However, ilisp.cons.org is down, other sub-sites as well I think. dajo From maxl at squeep.com Tue Aug 21 13:32:08 2001 From: maxl at squeep.com (Steve T.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:32:08 -0600 Subject: [lug] Still more XEmacs. In-Reply-To: <200108211715.f7LHFoX01402@Rednose.Anthrax>; from dajo@frii.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 11:15:50AM -0600 References: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> <200108211715.f7LHFoX01402@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <20010821133208.A356@rocket9> On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 11:15:50AM -0600, David wrote: > > It happens that I have been caught by the cons.org site being down, > too. I have been unable to get ilisp and cmucl. Fortunately, I am > able to use another distribution, although still I am lacking ilisp. I believe that ilisp does actually have a mirror, listed on freshmeat; CMUCL is still unavailable, but the branch of it that I'm using (SBCL) is actually pretty good - you can get it from http://sbcl.sourceforge.net. > User Option Information > max-specpdl-size > > *Limit on number of Lisp variable bindings & unwind-protects. > If Lisp code tries to make more than this many at once, > an error is signaled. > > value: 1000 > > Try increasing the value of max-specpdl-size with > (setq max-specpdl-size 10000) Actually, this problem was fixed in a much simpler way - by realizing that ilisp had support for SBCL under a name that wasn't listed anywhere in the documentation. - Steve -- "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture." - Frank Zappa "If one studies too zealously, he risks losing his pants." - Einstein From maxl at squeep.com Tue Aug 21 13:41:52 2001 From: maxl at squeep.com (Steve T.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:41:52 -0600 Subject: [lug] Still more XEmacs. In-Reply-To: ; from tkil@scrye.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 12:10:54PM -0600 References: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> Message-ID: <20010821134152.B356@rocket9> On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 12:10:54PM -0600, Tkil wrote: > >>>>> "Steve" == Steve T writes: > > Steve> XEmacs completely decides to ignore the site-init.el file, > Steve> which I placed in what I thought would be the default location > Steve> for it (/usr/X11R6/lib/xemacs-21.1.14/lisp/site-init.el), given > Steve> that a file called site-load.el lives in the same directory. > Steve> Surprise surprise, XEmacs loads neither of them on start! > Steve> Considering that this is a (supposedly) carefully assembled > Steve> package for Slackware, where should these files go? > > where did you get that X11R6 bit? oh, that's probably where slackware > puts it ... silly, since (despite its name) xemacs isn't dependent on > X Windows. I did find that pretty weird, but that seems sort of standard for Slackware. > as for documentation on where to look, the lispref info file describes > it in the node "(lispref)Start-up Summary". they refer to loading > libraries, which seems to imply that it looks through your load-path. > > you could also go outside of xemacs. strace the xemacs startup and > see what files it looks at. Thanks. Hopefully I can solve the problem going off of just that now. > Steve> I'd just use CMUCL, but unfortunately, the one site I know of > Steve> with source and binaries has been down for a month (the > Steve> official FTP site at cons.org). If anybody knows of a mirror, > Steve> I'd be appreciative. > > well, the web site at cons.org seems to be up. i did a google search > for "cmucl ilisp mirror download" and it returned www.laas.fr, but > then it redirected me to cons.org -- and it came up. then again, i'm > behind a caching proxy, so it might just have a very old copy. no, it > just worked fine. is it just the FTP side that is broken? It is, indeed, just the FTP. Although cons.org seems to have been abandoned since around late last month. -Steve -- "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture." - Frank Zappa "If one studies too zealously, he risks losing his pants." - Einstein From stimits at idcomm.com Tue Aug 21 14:30:38 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:30:38 -0600 Subject: [lug] RedHat 7.1 installation References: Message-ID: <3B82C4EE.8B34A042@idcomm.com> Arlan Ramsay wrote: > > I wanted to install it in order to get an easy firewall. The > installation seemed to go smoothly. That program had no problems > with its graphics displays. I was going to use Gnome. I have > tried a text login and then run startx, and also a graphics login. > Both ways give me one screen with a small terminal window, no pager. > I don't know what window manager it is, but evidently not sawfish > or fvwmx, twm, or any others I recognize. > > The second (or third) time I installed it, I was careful to specify > the exact video card (Diamond Stealth 3D 2000) and monitor (Viewsonic > A70). These were working just fine under the RH6.0 or 6.2 that I had > before. > > It seems unlikely but possible that my video card has a flaw. What > else? All advice gratefully recieved. This is on my home machine. Check the log in /var/log/. Should be something like file name XFree86.0.log, which will give you more information if you look for anything that noted failure. The item of failure may not be what you expected, because sometimes a seemingly unrelated detail is depended on by the more obvious failure, which itself might not even be noted. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > Arlan Ramsay > > ***************************************************************** > Arlan Ramsay > Department of Mathematics > 395 UCB > University of Colorado, Boulder > Telephone 303-492-7148 > Fax 303-492-7707 > ramsay at euclid.colorado.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dajo at frii.com Tue Aug 21 14:33:42 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:33:42 -0600 Subject: [lug] Still more XEmacs. In-Reply-To: <20010821133208.A356@rocket9> (maxl@squeep.com) References: <20010821041338.A469@rocket9> <200108211715.f7LHFoX01402@Rednose.Anthrax> <20010821133208.A356@rocket9> Message-ID: <200108212033.f7LKXgi01749@Rednose.Anthrax> > I believe that ilisp does actually have a mirror, listed on freshmeat; Thank you, freshmeat was unavailable, but AltaVista led me to the U of Alberta: http://sunsite.ualberta.ca/pub/Mirror/Linux/debian/debian/pool/non-free/i/ilisp/ dajo From stimits at idcomm.com Tue Aug 21 14:32:20 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:32:20 -0600 Subject: [lug] Re: portable md5 function? References: <3B82A483.2D93847D@sec.noaa.gov> Message-ID: <3B82C554.6F0CCF18@idcomm.com> "Thomas R. Detman" wrote: > > My Red Hat (KRUD 7.0) system contains '/usr/bin/md5sum', but the > date on it is Aug 30 2000, so I think it may have been part of > KRUD 6.2+. Anyway, if I type 'md5sum /usr/bin/md5sum', it says: > 'e0bf91d478e6ecf512922c91544a74ba /usr/bin/md5sum', is that > what you're looking for? > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug I'm looking for this in the form of a C function call, rather than a command line program. I wonder if the md5 based passwords rely on this separate program rather than a C function call? It seems more likely that somewhere there is a replacement to the old crypt() function call. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From stimits at idcomm.com Tue Aug 21 14:33:02 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:33:02 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? References: Message-ID: <3B82C57E.B9B4FE6@idcomm.com> George Sexton wrote: > > This is probably overkill, but I am sure that OpenSSL has MD5 functions > built in. Hmm...I'll investigate, it seems like it should. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us]On > Behalf Of D. Stimits > Sent: 21 August, 2001 11:28 AM > To: BLUG > Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? > > I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among > linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call > available. The original crypt() one-way hash does not use md5, but most > of the linux distro's now use md5 (or make it available) for passwords. > Is this possibly built into the libpam library? I'm trying to find a C > function call to do this, without invoking a "system()" call. > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Tue Aug 21 14:34:39 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:34:39 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> Message-ID: <3B82C5DF.385C5498@idcomm.com> rotering at animalcules.com wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 11:28:13AM -0600, D. Stimits wrote: > > > I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among > > linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call > > available. > > OpenSSL (as of 0.9.6a) contains functions to compute several different > message digests, including md5. > > The driver for /dev/random (/usr/src/linux/drivers/char/random.c) also > contains a commonly-available implementation of MD5. > > Depending on your personal boredom quotient, implementing MD5 from RFC > 1321 without peeking at existing implementations is fun. I did this > for a napster client I was working on (before Napster went effectively > Tango Utah) and learned a lot about bitwise operators and how to write > bad preprocessor macros (I stopped when I produced valid checksums for > files >= 516 bytes assuming I'd never see an mp3 file smaller than > that). It's only about 225 lines and it's not rocket science, so > rolling your own is an option if you're not willing to use the PD > implementations out there. I might actually do this, I found the RFC, but I'm not sure yet. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Tue Aug 21 14:36:04 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:36:04 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B82C634.2780AF9A@idcomm.com> Tkil wrote: > > >>>>> "DS" == D Stimits writes: > > DS> I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least > DS> among linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function > DS> call available. > > depending on what you're using these for, the perl MD5 module might be > helpful. i'm not sure how much extra magic you have to add to do > hashes the same way that the PAM stuff does, tho. I'm staying away from perl here, hopefully I can stick with just C or C++. Probably I'll end up using the OpenSSL, or maybe research that RFC and do it myself. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > t. > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From tkil at scrye.com Tue Aug 21 14:48:51 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:48:51 -0600 Subject: [lug] Re: portable md5 function? In-Reply-To: "D. Stimits"'s message of "Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:32:20 -0600" References: <3B82A483.2D93847D@sec.noaa.gov> <3B82C554.6F0CCF18@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >>>>> "DS" == D Stimits writes: DS> I'm looking for [MD5-style password hashing] in the form of a C DS> function call, rather than a command line program. I wonder if the DS> md5 based passwords rely on this separate program rather than a C DS> function call? It seems more likely that somewhere there is a DS> replacement to the old crypt() function call. have fun: http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/basesrc/lib/libcrypt/md5crypt.c?rev=1.3&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&sortby=date t. From nunar at iws.net Tue Aug 21 16:12:55 2001 From: nunar at iws.net (Shannon Johnston) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Nobody need shell? Message-ID: Does the user nobody need a shell?? I thought they only needed a UID and GID. Shannon From lists at morris-clan.net Tue Aug 21 16:12:52 2001 From: lists at morris-clan.net (David Morris) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Nobody need shell? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Every user needs a shell, but it does not have to be a working shell. Many people set users that don't (or shouldn't) log in to a shell such as /bin/false. --David On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Shannon Johnston wrote: > Does the user nobody need a shell?? I thought they only needed a UID and > GID. > > Shannon > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From jd_480 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 16:57:57 2001 From: jd_480 at hotmail.com (Jason Davis) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:57:57 -0600 Subject: [lug] fetchmailconf problem Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dradom at redback.com Tue Aug 21 17:36:40 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:36:40 -0600 Subject: [lug] fetchmailconf problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010821173640.G2586@saturn.enron.net> looks like it can't get your hostname. try adding the entry to /etc/hosts. * Jason Davis (jd_480 at hotmail.com) wrote: > im new to linux. when i try to set up fetchmail...by using fetchmail conf i > always get the error: > > file /usr/bin/fetchmailconf , line 1841 in? > hostname=socket.gethostbyaddr (socket.gethostname())[o] > socket.error: host not found From alanr at unix.sh Tue Aug 21 17:49:32 2001 From: alanr at unix.sh (Alan Robertson) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:49:32 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B82F38C.83866216@unix.sh> "D. Stimits" wrote: > > I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among > linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call > available. The original crypt() one-way hash does not use md5, but most > of the linux distro's now use md5 (or make it available) for passwords. > Is this possibly built into the libpam library? I'm trying to find a C > function call to do this, without invoking a "system()" call. Try this one. It works for me ;-) http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/md5.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain Sorry for the funky URL, but that's viewcvs for ya. There's also a crc and an md5 algorithm in the same directory: http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/#dirlist It's got some boilerplate for a plugin loading system that we use, but it's easy to see what to call for the MD5 function if you want. -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh From alanr at unix.sh Tue Aug 21 17:54:19 2001 From: alanr at unix.sh (Alan Robertson) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:54:19 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <3B82F38C.83866216@unix.sh> Message-ID: <3B82F4AB.33C24503@unix.sh> Alan Robertson wrote: > > "D. Stimits" wrote: > > > > I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among > > linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call > > available. The original crypt() one-way hash does not use md5, but most > > of the linux distro's now use md5 (or make it available) for passwords. > > Is this possibly built into the libpam library? I'm trying to find a C > > function call to do this, without invoking a "system()" call. > > Try this one. It works for me ;-) > > http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/md5.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain > > Sorry for the funky URL, but that's viewcvs for ya. > > There's also a crc and an md5 algorithm in the same directory: > > http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/#dirlist > > It's got some boilerplate for a plugin loading system that we use, but it's > easy to see what to call for the MD5 function if you want. Or you can drag down the whole plugin loading system (*can you spell overkill*? ;-)) and then authenticate with any type of authentication function you want. If you write any more that use the same form, let me know and we'll put them up on our CVS instance ;-) -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh From alanr at unix.sh Tue Aug 21 18:04:53 2001 From: alanr at unix.sh (Alan Robertson) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:04:53 -0600 Subject: [lug] High-Availability file server in Sept SysAdmin magazine Message-ID: <3B82F725.5C29F0E4@unix.sh> Hi, There's a nice article on creating a High-Availability File Server with heartbeat in this month's SysAdmin magazine. Unfortunately, the article itself is not online :-(. The September TOC is here: http://www.sysadminmag.com/articles/2001/0109/ The article (by Steve Blackmon and John Nguyen) has this abstract: The authors provide step-by-step procedures for building a high-availability file server for UNIX and Windows clients. Although the article focuses on setting up a file server, the technique could be applied to other services. -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh From efm at tummy.com Tue Aug 21 18:09:11 2001 From: efm at tummy.com (Evelyn Mitchell) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:09:11 -0600 Subject: [lug] High-Availability file server in Sept SysAdmin magazine In-Reply-To: <3B82F725.5C29F0E4@unix.sh>; from alanr@unix.sh on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:04:53PM -0600 References: <3B82F725.5C29F0E4@unix.sh> Message-ID: <20010821180911.A10783@tummy.com> On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:04:53PM -0600, Alan Robertson wrote: > Hi, > > There's a nice article on creating a High-Availability File Server with > heartbeat in this month's SysAdmin magazine. Unfortunately, the article > itself is not online :-(. Alan's too modest. This article is about his HA-Linux project. Congrats on the coverage, Alan! Evelyn Mitchell efm at tummy.com From caldodge at fpcc.net Tue Aug 21 20:07:16 2001 From: caldodge at fpcc.net (Calvin Dodge) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:07:16 -0600 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! In-Reply-To: <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba>; from rotering@animalcules.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 12:08:07PM -0600 References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> Message-ID: <20010821200716.A9526@aberdeen.fpcc.net> For those who are interested in the latest release of Red Hat's "Roswell" (7.2 beta), I'm getting 450 KBps from mirror.pa.msu.edu. Ya know, I could really get used to journalling filesystems (yes, I know SuSE has had Reiserfs for some time). Roswell comes with option to make ext3 partitions, so I did just that with the root partition on my first test install. After booting up, and logging in via gdm, I hit the reset button. On reboot the filesystem check took, oh, about 1 second. Now I just hope that the second edition of Roswell will work on our Epox KM133 (embedded shared-memory Savage video chipset). The first edition consistently locked up as soon as the X server was started. Now it's time to investigate some of the 3 gigs of stuff Roswell installed on Mom's computer. Calvin -- Calvin Dodge Certified Linux Bigot (tm) http://www.caldodge.fpcc.net From ljp at llornkcor.com Wed Aug 22 04:49:19 2001 From: ljp at llornkcor.com (ljp) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:49:19 -0600 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! In-Reply-To: <20010821200716.A9526@aberdeen.fpcc.net> References: <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010822044413.00af8e70@pop.peakpeak.com> At 20:07 8/21/2001 -0600, you wrote: >For those who are interested in the latest release of Red Hat's "Roswell" >(7.2 beta), I'm getting 450 KBps from mirror.pa.msu.edu. > >Ya know, I could really get used to journalling filesystems (yes, I know >SuSE has had Reiserfs for some time). I've been using SuSE 7 with reiserfs for some months on one of my linux boxes. I won't install any dist that DOESN'T have reiserfs are an install option anymore. I haven't tried ext3, but would be interesting to read any info on comparisons. Mandrake 8 also has a reiserfs install. ljp From plkey at home.com Wed Aug 22 09:38:06 2001 From: plkey at home.com (Prescott Oelke) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:38:06 -0600 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010822044413.00af8e70@pop.peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <000001c12b20$7034f070$6c4f0341@c1566405a> The new beta of Mandrake 8.1 has several options for a journaling file system. Reiserfs, ext3 and at least one other whose name escapes me at the moment. Prescott Oelke -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] On Behalf Of ljp Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 4:49 AM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! At 20:07 8/21/2001 -0600, you wrote: >For those who are interested in the latest release of Red Hat's "Roswell" >(7.2 beta), I'm getting 450 KBps from mirror.pa.msu.edu. > >Ya know, I could really get used to journalling filesystems (yes, I know >SuSE has had Reiserfs for some time). I've been using SuSE 7 with reiserfs for some months on one of my linux boxes. I won't install any dist that DOESN'T have reiserfs are an install option anymore. I haven't tried ext3, but would be interesting to read any info on comparisons. Mandrake 8 also has a reiserfs install. ljp _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From fschmid at archenergy.com Wed Aug 22 09:49:40 2001 From: fschmid at archenergy.com (Ferdinand Schmid) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:49:40 -0600 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! References: <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> <5.1.0.14.2.20010822044413.00af8e70@pop.peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <3B83D494.102@archenergy.com> KRUD 7.1 also offers a reiserfs install option (check out Kevin'g readme). We use KRUD and SuSE about 50/50 here and I can only say good things about reiserfs. Our main file server uses 70% reiserfs and the rest ext2. A few weeks ago I had a file corruption problem on an ext2 partition and the fsck took about 40 min (that's what you get for storing 1/2 TB on your disks). No Reiserfs problems yet in about 8 months of using it on production systems doing postgres and Samba. A nice side benefit of Reiserfs: If your disk fills up to 100% and then someone tries to open files for writing those files don't get corrupted. Ferdinand ljp wrote: > At 20:07 8/21/2001 -0600, you wrote: > >> For those who are interested in the latest release of Red Hat's >> "Roswell" (7.2 beta), I'm getting 450 KBps from mirror.pa.msu.edu. >> >> Ya know, I could really get used to journalling filesystems (yes, I >> know SuSE has had Reiserfs for some time). > > > > I've been using SuSE 7 with reiserfs for some months on one of my linux > boxes. I won't install any dist that DOESN'T have reiserfs are an > install option anymore. I haven't tried ext3, but would be interesting > to read any info on comparisons. > Mandrake 8 also has a reiserfs install. > > ljp > > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug -- Ferdinand Schmid http://www.archenergy.com 303-444-4149 x231 From tromey at redhat.com Wed Aug 22 10:44:07 2001 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:44:07 -0600 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! In-Reply-To: ljp's message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:49:19 -0600" References: <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> <5.1.0.14.2.20010822044413.00af8e70@pop.peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <87d75o6o4o.fsf@creche.redhat.com> >>>>> "ljp" == ljp writes: ljp> I haven't tried ext3, but would be interesting to read any info ljp> on comparisons. Well, this intentionally isn't a comparison, but it is an explanation of why Red Hat is using ext3: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-22-004-20-NW-RH Tom From wallen at its.bldrdoc.gov Wed Aug 22 11:19:27 2001 From: wallen at its.bldrdoc.gov (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] ISART 2000 Message-ID: I'm currently involved in planning the 2002 International Symposium on Advanced Radio Technologies to be held here in Boulder,CO. To get a feel for the flavor of this conference you can check out the past conference programs at . I have two questions: 1. What topics related to "Advanced Radio Technology" would be of particular interest? (Some of you might be able to dream up some topics that I wouldn't think of.) 2. Are there any of you who would be interested in giving a 30 minute presentation on some aspect of Advanced Radio Technology? If so, please contact me at . The list of topics that we've brainstormed are: - Modulation Methods - Spectrum Allocation - Antennas - Software Radio - Satellite Communications - Wireless Technology - Standards & Measurement Anything we're missing? - Wayde (wallen at its.bldrdoc.gov) From stimits at idcomm.com Wed Aug 22 13:00:55 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:00:55 -0600 Subject: [lug] ISART 2000 References: Message-ID: <3B840167.6CF8A8A0@idcomm.com> "J. Wayde Allen" wrote: > > I'm currently involved in planning the 2002 International Symposium on > Advanced Radio Technologies to be held here in Boulder,CO. To get a feel > for the flavor of this conference you can check out the past conference > programs at . > > I have two questions: > > 1. What topics related to "Advanced Radio Technology" would be of > particular interest? (Some of you might be able to dream up some > topics that I wouldn't think of.) > > 2. Are there any of you who would be interested in giving a 30 minute > presentation on some aspect of Advanced Radio Technology? If so, > please contact me at . > > The list of topics that we've brainstormed are: > > - Modulation Methods > - Spectrum Allocation > - Antennas > - Software Radio > - Satellite Communications > - Wireless Technology > - Standards & Measurement > > Anything we're missing? Data mining, including position tracking, and determining the scanned shape of radar-like systems, e.g., tornado research, or satellite imaging. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > - Wayde > (wallen at its.bldrdoc.gov) > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Wed Aug 22 13:04:38 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:04:38 -0600 Subject: [lug] Re: portable md5 function? References: <3B82A483.2D93847D@sec.noaa.gov> <3B82C554.6F0CCF18@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B840246.F1311AC7@idcomm.com> Tkil wrote: > > >>>>> "DS" == D Stimits writes: > > DS> I'm looking for [MD5-style password hashing] in the form of a C > DS> function call, rather than a command line program. I wonder if the > DS> md5 based passwords rely on this separate program rather than a C > DS> function call? It seems more likely that somewhere there is a > DS> replacement to the old crypt() function call. > > have fun: > > http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/basesrc/lib/libcrypt/md5crypt.c?rev=1.3&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&sortby=date > > t. > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug Surprisingly (or maybe not) I actually ran into this sample while looking around. I still haven't defined *exactly* what I want, but this does appear to be a fairly portable setup. If unistd.h is avoided, it might even compile on non-UNIX style systems. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From stimits at idcomm.com Wed Aug 22 13:07:34 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:07:34 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <3B82F38C.83866216@unix.sh> Message-ID: <3B8402F6.B03935C8@idcomm.com> Alan Robertson wrote: > > "D. Stimits" wrote: > > > > I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among > > linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call > > available. The original crypt() one-way hash does not use md5, but most > > of the linux distro's now use md5 (or make it available) for passwords. > > Is this possibly built into the libpam library? I'm trying to find a C > > function call to do this, without invoking a "system()" call. > > Try this one. It works for me ;-) > > http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/md5.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain > I notice this one goes through a significant effort to be platform independent in some ways (such as macro definition of UWORD32). Seems there are a lot of choices available now, I hadn't realized so many libraries were available, but you should see what happens when you do a web search for "md5" (ouch). D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > Sorry for the funky URL, but that's viewcvs for ya. > > There's also a crc and an md5 algorithm in the same directory: > > http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/#dirlist > > It's got some boilerplate for a plugin loading system that we use, but it's > easy to see what to call for the MD5 function if you want. > > -- Alan Robertson > alanr at unix.sh > > -- Alan Robertson > alanr at unix.sh > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Wed Aug 22 13:10:43 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:10:43 -0600 Subject: [lug] portable md5 function? References: <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <3B82F38C.83866216@unix.sh> <3B82F4AB.33C24503@unix.sh> Message-ID: <3B8403B3.378FF961@idcomm.com> Alan Robertson wrote: > > Alan Robertson wrote: > > > > "D. Stimits" wrote: > > > > > > I'm trying to find out if there is now a semi-portable (at least among > > > linux machines, probably UNIX in general) md5 sum function call > > > available. The original crypt() one-way hash does not use md5, but most > > > of the linux distro's now use md5 (or make it available) for passwords. > > > Is this possibly built into the libpam library? I'm trying to find a C > > > function call to do this, without invoking a "system()" call. > > > > Try this one. It works for me ;-) > > > > http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/md5.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain > > > > Sorry for the funky URL, but that's viewcvs for ya. > > > > There's also a crc and an md5 algorithm in the same directory: > > > > http://cvs.linux-ha.org/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/linux-ha/lib/plugins/HBauth/#dirlist > > > > It's got some boilerplate for a plugin loading system that we use, but it's > > easy to see what to call for the MD5 function if you want. > > Or you can drag down the whole plugin loading system (*can you spell > overkill*? ;-)) and then authenticate with any type of authentication > function you want. If you write any more that use the same form, let me > know and we'll put them up on our CVS instance ;-) Probably this will be going into something that already has a "killer plugin system that overkills", but the MD5 stuff won't be used for authentication, instead it will be used to help manage plugins (I actually have two projects I'm looking at this for, one of them is rather simple and needs a unique identifier of raw data sources). D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > -- Alan Robertson > alanr at unix.sh > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From lists at morris-clan.net Wed Aug 22 13:23:45 2001 From: lists at morris-clan.net (David Morris) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:23:45 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] pptpd connection from WinNT Problems Message-ID: I am working on setting up a VPN from Windows computers (Win9x/WinNT/Win2k) using pptpd. Everything seems to be setup correctly, but I cannot connect. The WinNT system I am using to test the connection is giving an error "629: The port was disconnected by the remote machine. I am using the following configuration: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- /etc/pptpd.conf: speed 115200 option /etc/ppp/pptpd-options debug localip 192.168.1.101-199 remoteip 192.168.4.101-199 /etc/ppp/pptpd-options debug name beltira auth require-chap proxyarp /etc/ppp/chap-secrets morrisde beltira foo * ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The log file from pptpd is very unhelpful, but is included at the end of this message for reference. On the Windows NT side, I have tried all combinattions of Security Options (including allowing clear-text authentication, and I have tried many combinations in the /etc/ppp/pptpd-options file based on various recommendations. Nothing works. Can anyone offer any help on what is going wrong? --David Aug 22 13:09:15 beltira pptpd[11979]: MGR: Manager process started Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: MGR: Launching /usr/sbin/pptpctrl to handle client Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: local address = 192.168.1.101 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: remote address = 192.168.4.101 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: pppd speed = 115200 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: pppd options file = /etc/ppp/pptpd-options Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Client 162.18.177.15 control connection started Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Received PPTP Control Message (type: 1) Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Made a START CTRL CONN RPLY packet Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: I wrote 156 bytes to the client. Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Sent packet to client Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Received PPTP Control Message (type: 7) Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Set parameters to 10000000 maxbps, 3 window size Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Made a OUT CALL RPLY packet Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Starting call (launching pppd, opening GRE) Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: pty_fd = 5 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: tty_fd = 6 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11981]: CTRL (PPPD Launcher): Connection speed = 115200 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11981]: CTRL (PPPD Launcher): local address = 192.168.1.101 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11981]: CTRL (PPPD Launcher): remote address = 192.168.4.101 Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: I wrote 32 bytes to the client. Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Sent packet to client Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Received PPTP Control Message (type: 15) Aug 22 13:09:17 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Got a SET LINK INFO packet with standard ACCMs Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: GRE: read(fd=5,buffer=25bd8,len=8196) from PTY failed: status = -1 error = Input/output error Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11979]: MGR: Reaped child 11980 Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: PTY read or GRE write failed (pty,gre)=(5,6) Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Client 162.18.177.15 control connection finished Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Exiting with active call Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Made a CALL DISCONNECT RPLY packet Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Couldn't write packet to client. Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Made a STOP CTRL REQ packet Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Couldn't write packet to client. Aug 22 13:09:47 beltira pptpd[11980]: CTRL: Exiting now From alanr at unix.sh Wed Aug 22 13:42:45 2001 From: alanr at unix.sh (Alan Robertson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:42:45 -0600 Subject: [lug] High-Availability file server in Sept SysAdmin magazine References: <3B82F725.5C29F0E4@unix.sh> <20010821180911.A10783@tummy.com> Message-ID: <3B840B35.92B35698@unix.sh> Evelyn Mitchell wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:04:53PM -0600, Alan Robertson wrote: > > Hi, > > > > There's a nice article on creating a High-Availability File Server with > > heartbeat in this month's SysAdmin magazine. Unfortunately, the article > > itself is not online :-(. > > Alan's too modest. Well.... not so modest I wouldn't post the note ;-) > This article is about his HA-Linux project. > Congrats on the coverage, Alan! The article's actually pretty a pretty good step by step description for setting up an High-Availability Samba and NFS file server. My main disappointment was that it basically identified me as "the" author. That's far from true. There are so many things that other people have contributed -- from simple networking code to authentication, to plugin loading code, to stonith plugins, to multicast code. All of these are areas where I had little or no expertise, but others were willing to contribute their expertise. So, I got to learn from others' expertise. -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh From catkinson at circadence.com Wed Aug 22 14:50:22 2001 From: catkinson at circadence.com (Chip Atkinson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:50:22 -0600 Subject: [lug] new isp connection problems Message-ID: <3B841B0E.8040802@circadence.com> Greetings all, I've changed ISPs and am now trying to connect. Apparently they have a terminal server that handles the dial in. From the archives I was able to glean the bit of information that I should start talking ppp immediately rather than answering a login prompt. I have my dial chat script wait for "CONNECT" and then exit and it looks like the connection nearly gets established but then drops. I have ppp set up for demand dial and start pinging the other end of the ppp connection. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. Chip Here's the output from /var/log/messages: Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (BUSY) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (ERROR) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (NO CARRIER) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (NO DIALTONE) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (Invalid Login) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (Login incorrect) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: send (ATZ^M) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: expect (OK) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: ATZ^M^M Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: OK Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: -- got it Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: send (ATDT3038270104^M) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: expect (CONNECT) Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: ^M Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: ATDT3038270104^M^M Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: CONNECT Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: -- got it Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle pppd[27880]: Serial connection established. Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle pppd[27880]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: IPCP: timeout sending Config-Requests Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: Connection terminated. Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: Hangup (SIGHUP) From manny_roque at telocity.com Mon Aug 20 18:54:07 2001 From: manny_roque at telocity.com (Manny Roque) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:54:07 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing Message-ID: <000d01c129db$c847cd50$0928c240@manny9gbr0sby2> Hi, I was wondering if any of you know of a good reliable dsl provider in the Lafayette,CO area? My current dsl provider Rhythms is closing it's services next month and I'm in search of a replacement. As long as I can get a static ip and the provider is Linux friendly that will do. ADSL is also preferred since I have an ADSL hookup already set up. Best Wishes, Manny Roque From bthoen at gisnet.com Tue Aug 21 08:08:05 2001 From: bthoen at gisnet.com (Bill Thoen) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:08:05 -0600 Subject: [lug] How to get .htaccess to work with user directories? Message-ID: <3B826B45.ABBBB2F3@gisnet.com> I can get .htaccess files to password protect directories under my document root tree, but for some reason they are ignored in user directories. How do I fix this? F'r instance, if I create a user account called hmc, and in httpd.conf I set UserDir to /projects/*/www, and I put an .htaccess file in /projects/hmc/www, setting AuthUserFile to /projects/hmc/www/.htpasswd, the pages in that directory are served right up without a challenge when a browser looks for www.gisnet.com/~hmc. If I change the directory to one under my DocumentRoot and copy these same files into that directory, it works fine. Anyone have any ideas? -- - Bill Thoen ------------------------------------------------------------ GISnet, 1401 Walnut St., Suite C, Boulder, CO 80302 tel: 303-786-9961, fax: 303-443-4856 mailto:bthoen at gisnet.com, http://www.gisnet.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From erick at xpedite.com Tue Aug 21 11:53:41 2001 From: erick at xpedite.com (Erick Bodine) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:53:41 -0600 Subject: [lug] rdist so-called versioning problem Message-ID: <3B82A025.85E8F801@xpedite.com> I am using rdist ( I know the security implications of using rdist, just bear with me on this) between two boxes and I am getting the complaint about mismatch of rdist version numbers that is mentioned in the man page. The man page mentions that it may stem from a problem with starting the shell, ie. you are in too many groups. The user running rdist is only in one group, so this is not the problem. Both boxes are using csh (oh, feel the pain). Does anyone have any experience with getting around this? Erick Bodine From dradom at redback.com Wed Aug 22 15:21:06 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:21:06 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <000d01c129db$c847cd50$0928c240@manny9gbr0sby2> References: <000d01c129db$c847cd50$0928c240@manny9gbr0sby2> Message-ID: <20010822152106.C3082@saturn.enron.net> i would check with speakeasy. they're very friendly, and basically don't care what you've got on the other end of that dsl modem. not sure about availability in lafayette. dan * Manny Roque (manny_roque at telocity.com) wrote: > Hi, > I was wondering if any of you know of a good reliable dsl provider in > the Lafayette,CO area? My current dsl provider Rhythms is closing it's > services next month and I'm in search of a replacement. As long as I can get > a static ip and the provider is Linux friendly that will do. ADSL is also > preferred since I have an ADSL hookup already set up. From RRiggs at doubleclick.net Wed Aug 22 15:18:41 2001 From: RRiggs at doubleclick.net (Riggs, Rob) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:18:41 -0600 Subject: [lug] How to get .htaccess to work with user directories? Message-ID: <6171BE9F602BD411B76D00508B9585D401169C41@brm-ex02.abacus-direct.com> Add "AllowOverride AuthConfig" to the directory entry in your httpd.conf file. If your running Red Hat, Apache is configured to use /home/*/public_html as the user directory. In the httpd.conf file there is a commented out section that sets various permissions for this directory, including AuthConfig. Simply uncommenting that section of the httpd.conf file (and reloading Apache) would do the trick. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Thoen [mailto:bthoen at gisnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:08 AM To: BLUG Subject: [lug] How to get .htaccess to work with user directories? I can get .htaccess files to password protect directories under my document root tree, but for some reason they are ignored in user directories. How do I fix this? F'r instance, if I create a user account called hmc, and in httpd.conf I set UserDir to /projects/*/www, and I put an .htaccess file in /projects/hmc/www, setting AuthUserFile to /projects/hmc/www/.htpasswd, the pages in that directory are served right up without a challenge when a browser looks for www.gisnet.com/~hmc. If I change the directory to one under my DocumentRoot and copy these same files into that directory, it works fine. Anyone have any ideas? -- - Bill Thoen ------------------------------------------------------------ GISnet, 1401 Walnut St., Suite C, Boulder, CO 80302 tel: 303-786-9961, fax: 303-443-4856 mailto:bthoen at gisnet.com, http://www.gisnet.com ------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Wed Aug 22 15:57:29 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:57:29 -0600 Subject: [lug] new isp connection problems References: <3B841B0E.8040802@circadence.com> Message-ID: <3B842AC9.3CFC5ACE@idcomm.com> The first thing I check if I nearly get a connect and then get dumped is if the PAP/CHAP is being used, and if it is set up right. Take a look at your /etc/ppp/chap-secrets and pap-secrets. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com Chip Atkinson wrote: > > Greetings all, > > I've changed ISPs and am now trying to connect. Apparently they have a > terminal server that handles the dial in. From the archives I was able > to glean the bit of information that I should start talking ppp > immediately rather than answering a login prompt. I have my dial chat > script wait for "CONNECT" and then exit and it looks like the connection > nearly gets established but then drops. > > I have ppp set up for demand dial and start pinging the other end of the > ppp connection. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance. > > Chip > > Here's the output from /var/log/messages: > > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (BUSY) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (ERROR) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (NO CARRIER) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (NO DIALTONE) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (Invalid Login) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (Login incorrect) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: send (ATZ^M) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: expect (OK) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: ATZ^M^M > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: OK > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: -- got it > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: send (ATDT3038270104^M) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: expect (CONNECT) > Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: ^M > Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: ATDT3038270104^M^M > Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: CONNECT > Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: -- got it > Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle pppd[27880]: Serial connection established. > Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle pppd[27880]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 > Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: IPCP: timeout sending Config-Requests > Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: Connection terminated. > Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: Hangup (SIGHUP) > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From catkinson at circadence.com Wed Aug 22 16:15:34 2001 From: catkinson at circadence.com (Chip Atkinson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:15:34 -0600 Subject: [lug] new isp connection problems References: <3B841B0E.8040802@circadence.com> <3B842AC9.3CFC5ACE@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B842F06.7030507@circadence.com> Ok, thanks. I'll start investigating that area. Chip D. Stimits wrote: > The first thing I check if I nearly get a connect and then get dumped is > if the PAP/CHAP is being used, and if it is set up right. Take a look at > your /etc/ppp/chap-secrets and pap-secrets. > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > Chip Atkinson wrote: > >> Greetings all, >> >> I've changed ISPs and am now trying to connect. Apparently they have a >> terminal server that handles the dial in. From the archives I was able >> to glean the bit of information that I should start talking ppp >> immediately rather than answering a login prompt. I have my dial chat >> script wait for "CONNECT" and then exit and it looks like the connection >> nearly gets established but then drops. >> >> I have ppp set up for demand dial and start pinging the other end of the >> ppp connection. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Chip >> >> Here's the output from /var/log/messages: >> >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (BUSY) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (ERROR) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (NO CARRIER) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (NO DIALTONE) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (Invalid Login) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: abort on (Login incorrect) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: send (ATZ^M) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: expect (OK) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: ATZ^M^M >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: OK >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: -- got it >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: send (ATDT3038270104^M) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: expect (CONNECT) >> Aug 22 14:47:18 poodle chat[27919]: ^M >> Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: ATDT3038270104^M^M >> Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: CONNECT >> Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle chat[27919]: -- got it >> Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle pppd[27880]: Serial connection established. >> Aug 22 14:47:36 poodle pppd[27880]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 >> Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: IPCP: timeout sending Config-Requests >> Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: Connection terminated. >> Aug 22 14:48:14 poodle pppd[27880]: Hangup (SIGHUP) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us >> Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From mjhammel at graphics-muse.org Wed Aug 22 16:26:55 2001 From: mjhammel at graphics-muse.org (Michael J. Hammel) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:26:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps Message-ID: <200108222226.RAA28275@feynman.graphics-muse.org> I just upgraded my laptop to RH7.1 (KRUD Aug 2001) under Ximian's GNOME and XFree86 4.0.3. Everything works pretty well. One thing that doesn't is that I don't seem to be able to run an xterm on a remote machine for display on my laptop (or any X application for that matter). I keep getting "X11socket..." errors. Yes, I already added the remote host to my access list with xhost. This looks like a Xauthority issue but prior to this upgrade nothing more than a simple xhost command was required. Did XFree86 4.0.x add something new? Anyone know what else needs to be configured here? -- Michael J. Hammel | "Life is like an ice cream cone. You can lick it The Graphics Muse | and enjoy it or just watch it melt away and turn mjhammel at graphics-muse.org | all sticky." Jim Ignatowski (from "Taxi") http://www.graphics-muse.com From dajo at frii.com Wed Aug 22 16:33:50 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:33:50 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <000d01c129db$c847cd50$0928c240@manny9gbr0sby2> (manny_roque@telocity.com) References: <000d01c129db$c847cd50$0928c240@manny9gbr0sby2> Message-ID: <200108222233.f7MMXo303538@Rednose.Anthrax> > I was wondering if any of you know of a good reliable dsl provider in > the Lafayette,CO area? My current dsl provider Rhythms is closing it's I am very happy with www.frii.com and I have seen other positive postings. I only use dial-up, so know nothing about dsl. The point is that frii seem to be competent and are friendly. dajo From dradom at redback.com Wed Aug 22 16:36:11 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:36:11 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <200108222233.f7MMXo303538@Rednose.Anthrax> References: <000d01c129db$c847cd50$0928c240@manny9gbr0sby2> <200108222233.f7MMXo303538@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <20010822163611.I3082@saturn.enron.net> frii has some pretty unrealistic transfer limits...2Gig a month down before additional charges are tacked on. dan From stimits at idcomm.com Wed Aug 22 16:41:04 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:41:04 -0600 Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps References: <200108222226.RAA28275@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Message-ID: <3B843500.136EB6D8@idcomm.com> It does sound like an auth issue. This may not be the best solution, but try adding to /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/xhost.xinitrc (you might need to create it) /usr/X11R6/bin/xhost +whatever.url.access.is.from If you need to create it, make it an executable permission, and make the first line: #!/bin/bash My assumption is you are using something like gdm or kdm or xdm. A more secure means is probably available. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com "Michael J. Hammel" wrote: > > I just upgraded my laptop to RH7.1 (KRUD Aug 2001) under Ximian's GNOME and > XFree86 4.0.3. Everything works pretty well. One thing that doesn't is > that I don't seem to be able to run an xterm on a remote machine for > display on my laptop (or any X application for that matter). I keep > getting "X11socket..." errors. > > Yes, I already added the remote host to my access list with xhost. This > looks like a Xauthority issue but prior to this upgrade nothing more than a > simple xhost command was required. Did XFree86 4.0.x add something new? > > Anyone know what else needs to be configured here? > > -- > Michael J. Hammel | "Life is like an ice cream cone. You can lick it > The Graphics Muse | and enjoy it or just watch it melt away and turn > mjhammel at graphics-muse.org | all sticky." Jim Ignatowski (from "Taxi") > http://www.graphics-muse.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From tkil at scrye.com Wed Aug 22 16:58:01 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 22 Aug 2001 16:58:01 -0600 Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps In-Reply-To: "Michael J. Hammel"'s message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:26:55 -0500 (CDT)" References: <200108222226.RAA28275@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Message-ID: >>>>> "Michael" == Michael J Hammel writes: Michael> Yes, I already added the remote host to my access list with Michael> xhost. This looks like a Xauthority issue but prior to this Michael> upgrade nothing more than a simple xhost command was Michael> required. Did XFree86 4.0.x add something new? does xauth fix it? Michael> Anyone know what else needs to be configured here? i'd guess that the 7.1 firewall got a bit stronger, and is blocking X access. i tend to just use SSH tunnelling for that, anyway, so i don't really know if that's the issue or not. t. From mjhammel at graphics-muse.org Wed Aug 22 17:17:15 2001 From: mjhammel at graphics-muse.org (Michael J. Hammel) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:17:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps In-Reply-To: from "Tkil" at Aug 22, 2001 04:58:01 PM Message-ID: <200108222317.SAA28468@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Thus spoke Tkil > does xauth fix it? Not that I can tell, but this was the first time I've tried running xauth. > i'd guess that the 7.1 firewall got a bit stronger, and is blocking X > access. i tend to just use SSH tunnelling for that, anyway, so i > don't really know if that's the issue or not. That sounds about right, or they started using some obscure X security mechanism and didn't tell anyone how to make it work like before. Arrgggh. So what do you do to get tunneling to work with this? I have ssh working between the two boxes. How do I get the remote guy to tunnel his X client over to the RH 7.1 box? -- Michael J. Hammel The Graphics Muse mjhammel at graphics-muse.org http://www.graphics-muse.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Thomas Beckett From glow at jackmoves.com Wed Aug 22 17:51:44 2001 From: glow at jackmoves.com (Justin) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Adding user to two machines at once? Message-ID: <20010822235144.C357C3A60@oldschool.jackmoves.com> I have a couple of servers that I have users on. One server contains every user while the other server contains only a select few of those users. Currently what I have been doing is when I get a new user, I add them to the primary server, then if necessary I add them again to the secondary server. What are some ways to make this procedure a little simpler? What I was thinking was writing a script that I can run on the primary server which adds the user, then prompts me if I want to add the same user to the secondary box. The script of course would need to somehow log into the secondary box and add the user there. That is what I don't know how to do. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to accomplish this? Or an alternative that might be better for my situation? BTW, the uid's or gid's do not need to be the same between the machines, simply the username and preferably the initial temp passwd. TIA, Justin ----- glow at jackmoves.com www.jackmoves.com From dradom at redback.com Wed Aug 22 18:14:01 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:14:01 -0600 Subject: [lug] Adding user to two machines at once? In-Reply-To: <20010822235144.C357C3A60@oldschool.jackmoves.com> References: <20010822235144.C357C3A60@oldschool.jackmoves.com> Message-ID: <20010822181401.A844@saturn.enron.net> are either NIS or LDAP an option? if not expect can do all the real work. it even ships with an example passwd / adduser script. * Justin (glow at jackmoves.com) wrote: > I have a couple of servers that I have users on. One server contains > every user while the other server contains only a select few of those > users. Currently what I have been doing is when I get a new user, I add > them to the primary server, then if necessary I add them again to the > secondary server. What are some ways to make this procedure a little > simpler? What I was thinking was writing a script that I can run on the > primary server which adds the user, then prompts me if I want to add > the same user to the secondary box. The script of course would need to > somehow log into the secondary box and add the user there. That is what > I don't know how to do. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to > accomplish this? Or an alternative that might be better for my > situation? > > BTW, the uid's or gid's do not need to be the same between the > machines, simply the username and preferably the initial temp passwd. > > TIA, > Justin > ----- > glow at jackmoves.com > www.jackmoves.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From tkil at scrye.com Wed Aug 22 19:27:10 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 22 Aug 2001 19:27:10 -0600 Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps In-Reply-To: "Michael J. Hammel"'s message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:17:15 -0500 (CDT)" References: <200108222317.SAA28468@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Message-ID: >>>>> "Michael" == Michael J Hammel writes: Michael> Not that I can tell, but this was the first time I've tried Michael> running xauth. xauth is pretty easy. on an xterm that is connected happily to your server, type in: xauth list | grep $DISPLAY you should see something like: myhost.mydomain.com:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 deadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeef open a connection to the remote machine. (i typically use another xterm for this.) on that machine, type in "xauth add " but don't hit return yet. use your mouse to select the whole line from the previous command (in the other window), then paste it into the remote session. this should include the return at the end of the line, so it will process that. then you have to set the DISPLAY variable on the remote machine as you would normally. after that, it should just work. the usual warnings about unencrypted traffic and the potential for being snooped inside X if anyone else connects are all still true, of course. Michael> That sounds about right, or they started using some obscure X Michael> security mechanism and didn't tell anyone how to make it work Michael> like before. Arrgggh. well, my RH 7.1 (krud 2001-07) box at work is quite happy with xauth, so i don't think that's the problem. it's probably the firewall. Michael> So what do you do to get tunneling to work with this? I have Michael> ssh working between the two boxes. How do I get the remote Michael> guy to tunnel his X client over to the RH 7.1 box? you have to make sure that your local ssh (client) is configured to ask for X forwarding, and that the remote sshd (server) is configured to allow it. look in ~/.ssh/config and /etc/ssh/sshd_config, respectively. the relevant options are: # grep X11 ~tkil/.ssh/config /etc/ssh/sshd_config /home/tkil/.ssh/config:ForwardX11 yes /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11Forwarding yes /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11DisplayOffset 10 lovely gratuitous inconsistencies, but oh well. (also, this is my 6.x box here at home -- i don't have a 7.x box handy...) once you have those values, and restart the sshd on the server side, the next connection should automatically set the DISPLAY environment variable for the remote shell, and it should work without further adjustment. t. From walter at frii.com Wed Aug 22 20:29:38 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <20010822163611.I3082@saturn.enron.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, dan radom wrote: > frii has some pretty unrealistic transfer limits...2Gig a month down before additional charges are tacked on. > > dan Are you sure about those numbers? http://www.frii.com/services/dsl.html has different info. Personally, I've had a FRII DSL account for almost 3 years, and have no problem recommending them. They have a good technical staff who give you straight answers. Walter From gsexton at mhsoftware.com Wed Aug 22 20:45:41 2001 From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (George Sexton) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:45:41 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <20010822163611.I3082@saturn.enron.net> Message-ID: Actually you should look at their current plan: http://www.frii.com/services/dsl.html 10GB is the bottom end. I have had their service for almost two years with ADSL and they are pretty good. -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us]On Behalf Of dan radom Sent: 22 August, 2001 4:36 PM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] Rhythms is closing frii has some pretty unrealistic transfer limits...2Gig a month down before additional charges are tacked on. dan _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From rob at pangalactic.org Wed Aug 22 21:32:06 2001 From: rob at pangalactic.org (Rob Riggs) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:32:06 -0600 Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps References: <200108222317.SAA28468@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Message-ID: <3B847936.8050301@pangalactic.org> Tkil wrote: ># grep X11 ~tkil/.ssh/config /etc/ssh/sshd_config > /home/tkil/.ssh/config:ForwardX11 yes > /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11Forwarding yes > /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11DisplayOffset 10 > >lovely gratuitous inconsistencies, but oh well. (also, this is my 6.x >box here at home -- i don't have a 7.x box handy...) > >once you have those values, and restart the sshd on the server side, >the next connection should automatically set the DISPLAY environment >variable for the remote shell, and it should work without further >adjustment. > Except it doesn't. I never used to have X11 forwarding problems with SSH, but I just went round and round with this problem this evening. I gave up and noticed this thread. Forwarding that used to work no longer does. The application just seems to hang. And there is no error logged anywhere that I can see. In the past if X11 forwarding was turned off at the client or server, the DISPLAY variable was not set. The DISPLAY variable is set, all of the config files (server and client) allow X11 forwarding. This is odd. From walter at frii.com Wed Aug 22 21:29:30 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Unix culture Message-ID: I'm reading right now an excerpt of an upcoming book, and enjoying it a bunch: http://www.unixreview.com/articles/books/book24/JoyofLinux_Ch04.pdf emacs/vi, KDE/GNOME, C/C++ . . . The chapter is freely available for downloading. Walter From mjhammel at graphics-muse.org Wed Aug 22 21:59:39 2001 From: mjhammel at graphics-muse.org (Michael J. Hammel) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:59:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps In-Reply-To: from "Tkil" at Aug 22, 2001 07:27:10 PM Message-ID: <200108230359.WAA29263@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Thus spoke Tkil > xauth is pretty easy. on an xterm that is connected happily to your > server, type in: > > xauth list | grep $DISPLAY > > you should see something like: > > myhost.mydomain.com:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 deadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeef > > open a connection to the remote machine. (i typically use another > xterm for this.) on that machine, type in "xauth add " but don't hit > return yet. use your mouse to select the whole line from the previous > command (in the other window), then paste it into the remote session. > this should include the return at the end of the line, so it will > process that. > > then you have to set the DISPLAY variable on the remote machine as you > would normally. after that, it should just work. the usual warnings It doesn't work. I get the following: mjhammel(tty4)$ xauth add kepler.graphics-muse.org/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 2a57190fe60f089d6598ae638471d0b7 mjhammel(tty4)$ display kepler:0 mjhammel(tty4)$ xterm _X11TransSocketINETConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 _X11TransSocketINETConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 The TCP connection is being rejected by the server for some reason. I can't figure out why. > well, my RH 7.1 (krud 2001-07) box at work is quite happy with xauth, > so i don't think that's the problem. it's probably the firewall. Possibly, though I configured with isinglass the way my 6.2 boxes were set up (and they allow remote X display). It still doesn't help. > # grep X11 ~tkil/.ssh/config /etc/ssh/sshd_config > /home/tkil/.ssh/config:ForwardX11 yes > /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11Forwarding yes > /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11DisplayOffset 10 > > lovely gratuitous inconsistencies, but oh well. (also, this is my 6.x > box here at home -- i don't have a 7.x box handy...) > > once you have those values, and restart the sshd on the server side, > the next connection should automatically set the DISPLAY environment > variable for the remote shell, and it should work without further > adjustment. I tried this too and it doesn't work. I have two systems: Feynman (RH6.2) and Kepler (RH7.1). If I run ssh -X kepler xterm on Feynman I get an xterm popped up on kepler that is running on kepler. If I run ssh -X feynman xterm on Kepler, I get "xterm not found". Changing to ssh -X feynman /usr/X11R6/bin/xterm I get "can't open display." So, one last try: ssh -X feynman "/usr/X11R6/bin/xterm -display kepler:0" I'm back to _X11TransSocketINETConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 There is something funky about this X server configuration, but I'm not sure where to look next. -- Michael J. Hammel The Graphics Muse mjhammel at graphics-muse.org http://www.graphics-muse.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You should not confuse your career with your life. -- Unknown. From alanr at unix.sh Wed Aug 22 22:06:28 2001 From: alanr at unix.sh (Alan Robertson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:06:28 -0600 Subject: [lug] funny port numbers Message-ID: <3B848144.1A477C32@unix.sh> Hi, I decided to look at the logs of the various ways people have tried to break into my firewall. I know about many of the ports, and even some of the exploits, but I'm at a loss for some of them. At the end of this email is a list of counts and port numbers. The mysteries to me include: Ports 61K and up Port 1243 Port 6970 Port 27374. Does anyone know what these particular ports/exploits are about? Also, what is microsoft-ds on port 445? -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh 7 500 isakmp 500/tcp # isakmp 7 64478 8 65030 9 445 microsoft-ds 445/udp # Microsoft-DS 9 62059 9 63751 9 64168 11 64564 12 62500 12 62726 12 63324 12 64183 14 64045 16 62402 16 64555 19 63834 27 61144 37 1243 48 21 ftp 21/tcp # File Transfer [Control] 49 515 printer 515/tcp # spooler 76 53 DNS 103 27374 179 111 sunrpc 111/tcp # SUN Remote Procedure Call 485 6970 562 139 netbios-ssn 139/tcp # NETBIOS Session Service 686 137 netbios-ns 137/tcp # NETBIOS Name Service From rotering at animalcules.com Wed Aug 22 23:03:03 2001 From: rotering at animalcules.com (rotering at animalcules.com) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:03:03 -0600 Subject: [lug] funny port numbers In-Reply-To: <3B848144.1A477C32@unix.sh>; from alanr@unix.sh on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 10:06:28PM -0600 References: <3B848144.1A477C32@unix.sh> Message-ID: <20010822230303.A792@amoeba> On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 10:06:28PM -0600, Alan Robertson wrote: > Does anyone know what these particular ports/exploits are about? > Port 1243 No clue about this one but I see 1234 a lot as well. > Port 27374. This is a scan for the sub7 trojan (distributed through www.sub7.org). From walter at frii.com Wed Aug 22 23:40:15 2001 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:40:15 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] funny port numbers In-Reply-To: <20010822230303.A792@amoeba> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 rotering at animalcules.com wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 10:06:28PM -0600, Alan Robertson wrote: > > > Does anyone know what these particular ports/exploits are about? > > > Port 1243 > > No clue about this one but I see 1234 a lot as well. BackDoor-G, SubSeven, SubSeven Apocalypse, Tiles, according to http://www.sans.org/newlook/resources/IDFAQ/oddports.htm Walter From ekilfoil at viawest.net Wed Aug 22 23:48:06 2001 From: ekilfoil at viawest.net (Eric Kilfoil) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I hate to do this since I work for the company, but ViaWest offers services in Lafayette. Since I work for the company, I'm biased and therefore really can't comment on the service. :) I do have DSL through the company, and all of the problems that i've had have been Qwest related. Then again, I do have an inside track on getting our support staff to escalate issues with qwest :). Any viawest dsl users on this list that care to comment? Eric Kilfoil Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator ViaWest Internet Services On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Walter Pienciak wrote: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, dan radom wrote: > > > frii has some pretty unrealistic transfer limits...2Gig a month down before additional charges are tacked on. > > > > dan > > Are you sure about those numbers? > > http://www.frii.com/services/dsl.html has different info. > > Personally, I've had a FRII DSL account for almost 3 years, and have > no problem recommending them. They have a good technical staff who > give you straight answers. > > Walter > > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From tkil at scrye.com Thu Aug 23 00:28:38 2001 From: tkil at scrye.com (Tkil) Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:28:38 -0600 Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps In-Reply-To: "Michael J. Hammel"'s message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:59:39 -0500 (CDT)" References: <200108230359.WAA29263@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Message-ID: >>>>> "Michael" == Michael J Hammel writes: Michael> mjhammel(tty4)$ xauth add kepler.graphics-muse.org/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 2a57190fe60f089d6598ae638471d0b7 adding the unix socket won't help any. :) you need to add it as "kepler.graphics-muse.org:0" and set your display to the exact same thing. (sorry for the "grep $DISPLAY" stupidity, i couldn't think of a better way to do it....) i usually just look for "foo.bar.org:0" and cut-n-paste that line. Michael> The TCP connection is being rejected by the server for some Michael> reason. I can't figure out why. i'm beginning to wonder if your X server is configured to listen to TCP at all -- if it's using just unix domain sockets, i'm not sure that sshd is clever enough to redirect that, and it would obviously explain why xhost/xauth isn't giving you any joy either. Michael> There is something funky about this X server configuration, Michael> but I'm not sure where to look next. see above. it wouldn't surprise me if the TCP listening socket was turned off by default.... t. From ekilfoil at viawest.net Thu Aug 23 00:56:06 2001 From: ekilfoil at viawest.net (Eric Kilfoil) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Unix culture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is great reading... thanks! as we all know, vi users are superior :) eric On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Walter Pienciak wrote: > I'm reading right now an excerpt of an upcoming book, and enjoying > it a bunch: > > http://www.unixreview.com/articles/books/book24/JoyofLinux_Ch04.pdf > > emacs/vi, KDE/GNOME, C/C++ . . . > > The chapter is freely available for downloading. > > > Walter > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From teece at silverklein.net Thu Aug 23 01:09:10 2001 From: teece at silverklein.net (Timothy Klein) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:09:10 -0600 Subject: [lug] RH7.1 and remote display of X apps In-Reply-To: <200108230359.WAA29263@feynman.graphics-muse.org> References: <200108230359.WAA29263@feynman.graphics-muse.org> Message-ID: <20010823010910.A30850@keats> I'm not using RedHat, but in Debian they consider remote X uneeded and dangerous, so it is disabled by default. Check out how your X server is being started -- the abitlity to listen for TCP connects can be completely disabled when your server is started, either by startx or xdm. This is the same kind of problem I get in a fresh Debian install. On my Debian box, for startx, there is a file called: /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc It containted the following line: exec /usr/bin/X11/X -dpi 100 -nolisten tcp The -nolisten tcp had to be removed if remote X was wanted. There is something similar for XDM, but I can't remember the name of the file right now, and I don't currenlty have XDM installed. Sorry, I don't know where Redhat keeps these file, but is has got to have them. Maybe somebody else can chime in. HTH Tim * Michael J. Hammel (mjhammel at graphics-muse.org) wrote: > Thus spoke Tkil > > xauth is pretty easy. on an xterm that is connected happily to your > > server, type in: > > > > xauth list | grep $DISPLAY > > > > you should see something like: > > > > myhost.mydomain.com:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 deadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeefdeadbeef > > > > open a connection to the remote machine. (i typically use another > > xterm for this.) on that machine, type in "xauth add " but don't hit > > return yet. use your mouse to select the whole line from the previous > > command (in the other window), then paste it into the remote session. > > this should include the return at the end of the line, so it will > > process that. > > > > then you have to set the DISPLAY variable on the remote machine as you > > would normally. after that, it should just work. the usual warnings > > It doesn't work. I get the following: > > mjhammel(tty4)$ xauth add kepler.graphics-muse.org/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 2a57190fe60f089d6598ae638471d0b7 > > mjhammel(tty4)$ display > kepler:0 > > mjhammel(tty4)$ xterm > _X11TransSocketINETConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 > _X11TransSocketINETConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 > > The TCP connection is being rejected by the server for some reason. I > can't figure out why. > > > well, my RH 7.1 (krud 2001-07) box at work is quite happy with xauth, > > so i don't think that's the problem. it's probably the firewall. > > Possibly, though I configured with isinglass the way my 6.2 boxes were set > up (and they allow remote X display). It still doesn't help. > > > # grep X11 ~tkil/.ssh/config /etc/ssh/sshd_config > > /home/tkil/.ssh/config:ForwardX11 yes > > /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11Forwarding yes > > /etc/ssh/sshd_config:X11DisplayOffset 10 > > > > lovely gratuitous inconsistencies, but oh well. (also, this is my 6.x > > box here at home -- i don't have a 7.x box handy...) > > > > once you have those values, and restart the sshd on the server side, > > the next connection should automatically set the DISPLAY environment > > variable for the remote shell, and it should work without further > > adjustment. > > I tried this too and it doesn't work. I have two systems: Feynman (RH6.2) > and Kepler (RH7.1). > > If I run > > ssh -X kepler xterm > > on Feynman I get an xterm popped up on kepler that is running on kepler. > If I run > > ssh -X feynman xterm > > on Kepler, I get "xterm not found". Changing to > > ssh -X feynman /usr/X11R6/bin/xterm > > I get "can't open display." So, one last try: > > ssh -X feynman "/usr/X11R6/bin/xterm -display kepler:0" > > I'm back to > > _X11TransSocketINETConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 > > There is something funky about this X server configuration, but I'm not > sure where to look next. > -- > Michael J. Hammel The Graphics Muse > mjhammel at graphics-muse.org http://www.graphics-muse.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > You should not confuse your career with your life. -- Unknown. > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug ============================================== == Timothy Klein || teece at silverklein.net == == ---------------------------------------- == == "Hello, World" 17 Errors, 31 Warnings... == ============================================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From caldodge at fpcc.net Thu Aug 23 06:29:01 2001 From: caldodge at fpcc.net (Calvin Dodge) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:29:01 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: ; from ekilfoil@viawest.net on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:48:06PM -0600 References:

Message-ID: <20010823062901.A11779@aberdeen.fpcc.net> On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:48:06PM -0600, Eric Kilfoil wrote: > > I hate to do this since I work for the company, but ViaWest offers > services in Lafayette. Since I work for the company, I'm biased and > therefore really can't comment on the service. :) I do have DSL through > the company, and all of the problems that i've had have been Qwest > related. Then again, I do have an inside track on getting our support > staff to escalate issues with qwest :). Any viawest dsl users on this > list that care to comment? My employer (Linko Data Systems) has had Viawest DSL for over 3 months now, and our problems, too, have all been Qwest-related. Yes, I'd have to say Viawest tech support is pretty decent (they _do_ know when to escalate the issue with Qwest). I _do_ feel obligated to throw in my standard plug for _my_ ISP (Fairplay Communications - www.fpcc.net) - they also offer DSL in the same way (Qwest does the hardware side), and their tech support is pretty good (hi, Kirk!). Calvin -- Calvin Dodge Certified Linux Bigot (tm) http://www.caldodge.fpcc.net From ljp at llornkcor.com Thu Aug 23 07:03:53 2001 From: ljp at llornkcor.com (ljp) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:03:53 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <000d01c129db$c847cd50$0928c240@manny9gbr0sby2> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010823070014.0204feb8@pop.peakpeak.com> At 18:54 8/20/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, > I was wondering if any of you know of a good reliable dsl provider in >the Lafayette,CO area? My current dsl provider Rhythms is closing it's >services next month and I'm in search of a replacement. As long as I can get >a static ip and the provider is Linux friendly that will do. ADSL is also >preferred since I have an ADSL hookup already set up. >Best Wishes, > >Manny Roque Check http://www.peakpeak.com very linux friendly, as I believe one or more of their support or other workers is on this list. Very reliable. Only two short down times since last November, neither of which I believe was their fault. (QWorst) ljp From plkey at home.com Thu Aug 23 08:33:03 2001 From: plkey at home.com (Prescott Oelke) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:33:03 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010823070014.0204feb8@pop.peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <000201c12be0$844927a0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> It looks like @home may soon be joining Rythms and the long list of DSL providers in going under. I hope AT&T isn't just going to let it's subscribers lose service but you never know. What really stinks though is if they go under I can't get DSL so it's back to dial-up for me. Gee, I love this modern world we live in. Prescott Oelke -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] On Behalf Of ljp Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:04 AM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] Rhythms is closing At 18:54 8/20/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, > I was wondering if any of you know of a good reliable dsl provider in >the Lafayette,CO area? My current dsl provider Rhythms is closing it's >services next month and I'm in search of a replacement. As long as I can get >a static ip and the provider is Linux friendly that will do. ADSL is also >preferred since I have an ADSL hookup already set up. >Best Wishes, > >Manny Roque Check http://www.peakpeak.com very linux friendly, as I believe one or more of their support or other workers is on this list. Very reliable. Only two short down times since last November, neither of which I believe was their fault. (QWorst) ljp _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From glow at jackmoves.com Thu Aug 23 08:47:30 2001 From: glow at jackmoves.com (Justin) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:47:30 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] xinetd on or off? Message-ID: <20010823144730.B03443A62@oldschool.jackmoves.com> This might be a simple question but I never really thought of it until now. If I have a machine that has xinetd installed and running, but does not use any services via xinetd, do I even need xinetd running or installed? Here is how xinetd gets started up: Aug 22 21:07:53 deviant xinetd[978]: xinetd Version 2.1.8.9pre15 started with libwrap options compiled in. Aug 22 21:07:53 deviant xinetd[978]: Started working: 0 available service I'm guessing since I use 0 services thru xinetd that I can turn it off and/or remove it. Is this correct? Justin ----- glow at jackmoves.com www.jackmoves.com From glow at jackmoves.com Thu Aug 23 09:00:19 2001 From: glow at jackmoves.com (Justin) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:00:19 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Adding user to two machines at once? Message-ID: <20010823150019.19E713A62@oldschool.jackmoves.com> NIS is not an option. Maybe LDAP but I've never used it. Would it be difficult to migrate my current userbase into an LDAP database? Know of any docs that could help with this? I'll check into it in the meantime. Justin > are either NIS or LDAP an option? if not expect can do all the real work. it even ships with an example passwd / adduser script. > > * Justin (glow at jackmoves.com) wrote: > > I have a couple of servers that I have users on. One server contains > > every user while the other server contains only a select few of those > > users. Currently what I have been doing is when I get a new user, I add > > them to the primary server, then if necessary I add them again to the > > secondary server. What are some ways to make this procedure a little > > simpler? What I was thinking was writing a script that I can run on the > > primary server which adds the user, then prompts me if I want to add > > the same user to the secondary box. The script of course would need to > > somehow log into the secondary box and add the user there. That is what > > I don't know how to do. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to > > accomplish this? Or an alternative that might be better for my > > situation? > > > > BTW, the uid's or gid's do not need to be the same between the > > machines, simply the username and preferably the initial temp passwd. > > > > TIA, > > Justin > > ----- > > glow at jackmoves.com > > www.jackmoves.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > ----- glow at jackmoves.com www.jackmoves.com From dradom at redback.com Thu Aug 23 09:00:51 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:00:51 -0600 Subject: [lug] xinetd on or off? In-Reply-To: <20010823144730.B03443A62@oldschool.jackmoves.com> References: <20010823144730.B03443A62@oldschool.jackmoves.com> Message-ID: <20010823090050.D842@saturn> absolutely correct dan * Justin (glow at jackmoves.com) wrote: > This might be a simple question but I never really thought of it until > now. If I have a machine that has xinetd installed and running, but > does not use any services via xinetd, do I even need xinetd running or > installed? > Here is how xinetd gets started up: > Aug 22 21:07:53 deviant xinetd[978]: xinetd Version 2.1.8.9pre15 > started with libwrap options compiled in. > Aug 22 21:07:53 deviant xinetd[978]: Started working: 0 available > service > > I'm guessing since I use 0 services thru xinetd that I can turn it off > and/or remove it. Is this correct? From plkey at home.com Thu Aug 23 10:08:34 2001 From: plkey at home.com (Prescott Oelke) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:08:34 -0600 Subject: [lug] Linux in schools In-Reply-To: <20010823150019.19E713A62@oldschool.jackmoves.com> Message-ID: <000001c12bed$dc2facc0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> An interesting article about something happening in our own back yard http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,45862,00.html Sometimes I think that Microsoft may be it's own worst enemy. Prescott Oelke From nunar at nunar.com Thu Aug 23 13:09:05 2001 From: nunar at nunar.com (Shannon Johnston) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Linux in schools In-Reply-To: <000001c12bed$dc2facc0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> Message-ID: Hmmm... I would tend to agree. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-082301micro.story Shannon Johnston nunar at nunar.com -------------------------------- Hiroshima '45 Chernobyl '86 Windows '95 -------------------------------- On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Prescott Oelke wrote: > An interesting article about something happening in our own back yard > http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,45862,00.html > > Sometimes I think that Microsoft may be it's own worst enemy. > > Prescott Oelke > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 13:11:30 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:11:30 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print Message-ID: <3B855562.CE67DD8D@idcomm.com> I'm using an html format resume, and am in a bit of a hurry to do some printing. I have html2latex, and html2ps. The problem with html2ps is that I can't get rid of its attempt to create an index type header line on every page to url links...I don't want anything in the header/footer. The problem with the LaTeX version is that I apparently have nothing to directly view the results, or print it. I have LyX, but the import of LaTeX is greyed out, and not available. How can I view and print LaTeX? What tool is recommended? (I may already have it, I don't have a lot of time to research it though) D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From dajo at frii.com Thu Aug 23 13:29:43 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:29:43 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error Message-ID: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> I think that I have a Linux (firewall?, or ?) configuration error; but it needs a little background explanation. I am successfully accessing a remote machine over the net using a socket, which is established by a function call in a programme; the calling source code sees the socket access as a byte stream. I have a lot of development to do and decided to create a stream by accessing a local file instead of the net; there is a standard call in the programming language to do this kind of access. The changes in the function call are trivially different for the two cases, which makes me think that I have a Linux system problem. Also, the error messages strongly indicate something outside the programme. I am hoping that someone will recognise symptoms of a Linux problem. If the file does not exist I get this; pretty good: "No such file or directory". Error: creating a socket and connecting to remote socket nil resulted in error (code 2): No such file or directory. If the file exists I get this, even if the file permissions are wide open 777 all the way from / Error: "Connection refused" (errno 111) occured while creating a socket and connecting to remote socket. Since I am using a socket I wonder if my firewall, or ?, is getting in the way. # Firewall configuration written by lokkit # Manual customization of this file is not recommended. # Note: ifup-post will punch the current nameservers through the # firewall; such entries will *not* be listed here. :input ACCEPT :forward ACCEPT :output ACCEPT -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -i lo -j ACCEPT -A input -s 216.17.128.1 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT -A input -s 216.17.128.2 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p tcp -y -j REJECT -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p udp -j REJECT dajo From gmurray at Mines.EDU Thu Aug 23 13:32:59 2001 From: gmurray at Mines.EDU (Glenn Murray) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B855562.CE67DD8D@idcomm.com> Message-ID: For viewing/printing latex I've had good results with pdflatex. If you start with gnuhtml2latex you won't get headers. I don't know about html2latex. Glenn Murray www.mines.edu/~glenn/public_html/Welcome.html On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > I'm using an html format resume, and am in a bit of a hurry to do some > printing. I have html2latex, and html2ps. The problem with html2ps is > that I can't get rid of its attempt to create an index type header line > on every page to url links...I don't want anything in the header/footer. > The problem with the LaTeX version is that I apparently have nothing to > directly view the results, or print it. I have LyX, but the import of > LaTeX is greyed out, and not available. > > How can I view and print LaTeX? What tool is recommended? (I may already > have it, I don't have a lot of time to research it though) > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From dajo at frii.com Thu Aug 23 13:38:04 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:38:04 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B855562.CE67DD8D@idcomm.com> (stimits@idcomm.com) References: <3B855562.CE67DD8D@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200108231938.f7NJc4101860@Rednose.Anthrax> > How can I view and print LaTeX? What tool is recommended? (I may already > have it, I don't have a lot of time to research it though) Compile the source with latex filename this produces a filename.dvi file then use xdvi to view the .dvi file or use dvips to produce a .ps file and use ghostview. I recommend using xdvi. dajo From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Thu Aug 23 13:39:12 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:39:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B855562.CE67DD8D@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > I'm using an html format resume, and am in a bit of a hurry to do some > printing. I have html2latex, and html2ps. The problem with html2ps is > that I can't get rid of its attempt to create an index type header line > on every page to url links...I don't want anything in the header/footer. Why can't you just let your browser render the html page, and then select "file -> print"? Never heard of html2latex or html2ps. I've only been interested in going the other way latex2html. > The problem with the LaTeX version is that I apparently have nothing to > directly view the results, or print it. Depends on what you want to do here? If you have a LaTeX file it should be nothing more than pure ASCII text. So in that sense you can view it and or print it with any ASCII editor. Of course, that probably isn't what you have in mind, but it does let you verify what your source file looks like. To print a LaTeX file you first have to run it through the LaTeX processor to create a dvi file. That is done by typing: latex yourfile.tex You can then view the dvi file directly using xdvi or you can convert it to postscript using dvips. > I have LyX, but the import of > LaTeX is greyed out, and not available. I've only tinkered with LyX. It seemed OK, ... maybe, but since I'd already invested some time in learning LaTeX it didn't do much for me. My guess is that maybe Lyx doesn't think this is a real LaTeX file. That is where taking a look with the ASCII pager or editor would be a good idea. I think that you'd need at a minimum you'd need to see: \begin{document} The text of your document here. \end{document} - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 13:47:58 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:47:58 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B855DEE.DBBA0673@idcomm.com> David wrote: > > I think that I have a Linux (firewall?, or ?) configuration error; but > it needs a little background explanation. > > I am successfully accessing a remote machine over the net using a > socket, which is established by a function call in a programme; the > calling source code sees the socket access as a byte stream. I have a > lot of development to do and decided to create a stream by accessing a > local file instead of the net; there is a standard call in the > programming language to do this kind of access. The changes in the > function call are trivially different for the two cases, which makes > me think that I have a Linux system problem. Also, the error messages > strongly indicate something outside the programme. I am hoping that > someone will recognise symptoms of a Linux problem. > > If the file does not exist I get this; pretty good: "No such file or > directory". > Error: creating a socket and connecting to remote socket nil resulted > in error (code 2): No such file or directory. > > If the file exists I get this, even if the file permissions are wide > open 777 all the way from / > Error: "Connection refused" (errno 111) occured while > creating a socket and connecting to remote socket. > > Since I am using a socket I wonder if my firewall, or ?, is getting in > the way. > > # Firewall configuration written by lokkit > # Manual customization of this file is not recommended. > # Note: ifup-post will punch the current nameservers through the > # firewall; such entries will *not* be listed here. > :input ACCEPT > :forward ACCEPT > :output ACCEPT > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -i lo -j ACCEPT > -A input -s 216.17.128.1 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > -A input -s 216.17.128.2 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p tcp -y -j REJECT > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p udp -j REJECT Add "-l" to enable logging on the REJECT lines, then (asssuming RH 7.x) restart ipchains (assuming this instead of iptables) via: /etc/rc.d/init.d/ipchains restart Test that ipchains really runs (do not use /etc/rc.d/init.d/ipchains for this): ipchains -L -n (if rules spit out, it is running) Monitor /var/log/messages with "tail -f -n 30 /var/log/messages" while trying your app. It'll tell you if it is the firewall doing the rejection. In any other case, it probably means that your X11 ports do not have any sort of daemon set to accept tcp/ip (local uses udp). The related possibility is authentication failure (a recent topic). D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > dajo > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 13:50:42 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:50:42 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: Message-ID: <3B855E92.9914BB00@idcomm.com> "J. Wayde Allen" wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > > > I'm using an html format resume, and am in a bit of a hurry to do some > > printing. I have html2latex, and html2ps. The problem with html2ps is > > that I can't get rid of its attempt to create an index type header line > > on every page to url links...I don't want anything in the header/footer. > > Why can't you just let your browser render the html page, and then select > "file -> print"? I can, but it screws up the format royally. What is displayed is far from what prints, it is a quality issue. > > Never heard of html2latex or html2ps. I've only been interested in going > the other way latex2html. > > > The problem with the LaTeX version is that I apparently have nothing to > > directly view the results, or print it. > > Depends on what you want to do here? If you have a LaTeX file it should > be nothing more than pure ASCII text. So in that sense you can view it > and or print it with any ASCII editor. Of course, that probably isn't > what you have in mind, but it does let you verify what your source file > looks like. I need a WYSIWYG viewer, it is for a resume, my printer is nearly out of ink, and generally does a poor job anyway. > > To print a LaTeX file you first have to run it through the LaTeX processor > to create a dvi file. That is done by typing: > > latex yourfile.tex Aha, yes, this should do, because as you mention below, I can view dvi. > > You can then view the dvi file directly using xdvi or you can convert it > to postscript using dvips. > > > I have LyX, but the import of > > LaTeX is greyed out, and not available. > > I've only tinkered with LyX. It seemed OK, ... maybe, but since I'd > already invested some time in learning LaTeX it didn't do much for me. My > guess is that maybe Lyx doesn't think this is a real LaTeX file. That is > where taking a look with the ASCII pager or editor would be a good > idea. I think that you'd need at a minimum you'd need to see: > > \begin{document} > > The text of your document here. > > \end{document} > > - Wayde > (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 13:51:09 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:51:09 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: <3B855562.CE67DD8D@idcomm.com> <200108231938.f7NJc4101860@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B855EAD.AD5DCD1F@idcomm.com> David wrote: > > > How can I view and print LaTeX? What tool is recommended? (I may already > > have it, I don't have a lot of time to research it though) > > Compile the source with > latex filename > this produces a filename.dvi file > then use xdvi to view the .dvi file > or use dvips to produce a .ps file and use ghostview. > > I recommend using xdvi. > > dajo > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug I'll give this a shot, dvi would be a good alternative. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From herod at interact-tv.com Thu Aug 23 13:50:47 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:50:47 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B855E97.F627AC53@interact-tv.com> Hi David, Let me see if I understand, you can connect to a remote machine with a socket but not a local file? Is it possible that your function call is still trying to make a connection to a socket. Hmmm, but your loopback interface should be open according to the ipchains stuff you sent, so that's not it. ( Check by telneting to the socket on your local machine. ) If it's not that funny language with all the parentheses that you like, :-) can you send a bit of the code? Scott David wrote: > > I think that I have a Linux (firewall?, or ?) configuration error; but > it needs a little background explanation. > > I am successfully accessing a remote machine over the net using a > socket, which is established by a function call in a programme; the > calling source code sees the socket access as a byte stream. I have a > lot of development to do and decided to create a stream by accessing a > local file instead of the net; there is a standard call in the > programming language to do this kind of access. The changes in the > function call are trivially different for the two cases, which makes > me think that I have a Linux system problem. Also, the error messages > strongly indicate something outside the programme. I am hoping that > someone will recognise symptoms of a Linux problem. > > If the file does not exist I get this; pretty good: "No such file or > directory". > Error: creating a socket and connecting to remote socket nil resulted > in error (code 2): No such file or directory. > > If the file exists I get this, even if the file permissions are wide > open 777 all the way from / > Error: "Connection refused" (errno 111) occured while > creating a socket and connecting to remote socket. > > Since I am using a socket I wonder if my firewall, or ?, is getting in > the way. > > # Firewall configuration written by lokkit > # Manual customization of this file is not recommended. > # Note: ifup-post will punch the current nameservers through the > # firewall; such entries will *not* be listed here. > :input ACCEPT > :forward ACCEPT > :output ACCEPT > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -i lo -j ACCEPT > -A input -s 216.17.128.1 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > -A input -s 216.17.128.2 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p tcp -y -j REJECT > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p udp -j REJECT > > dajo > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 14:02:46 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:02:46 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: Message-ID: <3B856166.8C8E2E7@idcomm.com> Glenn Murray wrote: > > For viewing/printing latex I've had good results with pdflatex. If > you start with gnuhtml2latex you won't get headers. I don't know > about html2latex. I have pdflatex available, and will download gnuhtml2latex right now to try, thank you. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > Glenn Murray > www.mines.edu/~glenn/public_html/Welcome.html > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > > > I'm using an html format resume, and am in a bit of a hurry to do some > > printing. I have html2latex, and html2ps. The problem with html2ps is > > that I can't get rid of its attempt to create an index type header line > > on every page to url links...I don't want anything in the header/footer. > > The problem with the LaTeX version is that I apparently have nothing to > > directly view the results, or print it. I have LyX, but the import of > > LaTeX is greyed out, and not available. > > > > How can I view and print LaTeX? What tool is recommended? (I may already > > have it, I don't have a lot of time to research it though) > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Thu Aug 23 14:02:09 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B855E92.9914BB00@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > I can, but it screws up the format royally. What is displayed is far > from what prints, it is a quality issue. OK, that makes sense ... well it doesn't really makes sense since it "shouldn't" do that, but lets just say I understand. > Aha, yes, this should do, because as you mention below, I can view dvi. If you are still having problems toss me a copy of the LaTeX document. I could take a look and see if I see anything fundamentally wrong with it. - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From dajo at frii.com Thu Aug 23 14:20:04 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:20:04 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error In-Reply-To: <3B855DEE.DBBA0673@idcomm.com> (stimits@idcomm.com) References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B855DEE.DBBA0673@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200108232020.f7NKK4R02048@Rednose.Anthrax> > > # Firewall configuration written by lokkit > > # Manual customization of this file is not recommended. > > # Note: ifup-post will punch the current nameservers through the > > # firewall; such entries will *not* be listed here. > > :input ACCEPT > > :forward ACCEPT > > :output ACCEPT > > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -i lo -j ACCEPT > > -A input -s 216.17.128.1 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > > -A input -s 216.17.128.2 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p tcp -y -j REJECT > > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p udp -j REJECT > > Add "-l" to enable logging on the REJECT lines, then (asssuming RH 7.x) > restart ipchains (assuming this instead of iptables) via: > /etc/rc.d/init.d/ipchains restart But isn't it the lo line that possibly is relevant here? > > Test that ipchains really runs (do not use /etc/rc.d/init.d/ipchains for > this): > ipchains -L -n > (if rules spit out, it is running) > > Monitor /var/log/messages with "tail -f -n 30 /var/log/messages" while > trying your app. It'll tell you if it is the firewall doing the > rejection. I tried this. There was no messages activity at all. That is good, though: it eliminates the firewall. I never was quite comfortable with that explanation. > In any other case, it probably means that your X11 ports do not have any > sort of daemon set to accept tcp/ip (local uses udp). The related > possibility is authentication failure (a recent topic). > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com Now this is interesting. I looked briefly at the man page for xauth this morning, I stopped when I saw it was for X. But maybe that was bad thinking. Can you help some more with this (I know that you are busy with xdvi 8-) dajo From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 14:29:24 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:29:24 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B855DEE.DBBA0673@idcomm.com> <200108232020.f7NKK4R02048@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B8567A4.1A635151@idcomm.com> David wrote: > > > > # Firewall configuration written by lokkit > > > # Manual customization of this file is not recommended. > > > # Note: ifup-post will punch the current nameservers through the > > > # firewall; such entries will *not* be listed here. > > > :input ACCEPT > > > :forward ACCEPT > > > :output ACCEPT > > > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -i lo -j ACCEPT > > > -A input -s 216.17.128.1 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > > > -A input -s 216.17.128.2 53 -d 0/0 -p udp -j ACCEPT > > > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p tcp -y -j REJECT > > > -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -p udp -j REJECT > > > > Add "-l" to enable logging on the REJECT lines, then (asssuming RH 7.x) > > restart ipchains (assuming this instead of iptables) via: > > /etc/rc.d/init.d/ipchains restart > > But isn't it the lo line that possibly is relevant here? > > > > > Test that ipchains really runs (do not use /etc/rc.d/init.d/ipchains for > > this): > > ipchains -L -n > > (if rules spit out, it is running) > > > > Monitor /var/log/messages with "tail -f -n 30 /var/log/messages" while > > trying your app. It'll tell you if it is the firewall doing the > > rejection. > > I tried this. There was no messages activity at all. That is good, > though: it eliminates the firewall. I never was quite comfortable > with that explanation. > > > In any other case, it probably means that your X11 ports do not have any > > sort of daemon set to accept tcp/ip (local uses udp). The related > > possibility is authentication failure (a recent topic). > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > Now this is interesting. I looked briefly at the man page for xauth > this morning, I stopped when I saw it was for X. But maybe that was > bad thinking. Can you help some more with this (I know that you are > busy with xdvi 8-) Someone else mentioned use of telnet to test for service. If you telnet to the X11 port, and it is summarily dropped, without any connection at all, versus having a connection and then being rejected after typing in some nonsense, you will know whether it is lack of tcp/ip or if it is authentication. The port you are interested in is 6000 (also good to monitor with tail -f /var/log/messages, plus the X11 log itself, /var/log/XFree86.0.log). Simply try (adjust localhost or ip address): telnet localhost 6000 Does it allow you to connect and type nonsense, or does it drop you without the ability to connect at all? Summarily dropping you indicates nothing is listening for tcp/ip there. Allowing you in but dropping you after typing nonsense indicates you are likely working with authentication failure. Authentication is a big can of worms, but you can try this for each host (use command line so it isn't permanent) you might need the X display to allow connections from: xhost + (without any url after the '+' should open it to all) Alternatively: xhost +127.0.0.1 (or adjust to a real outside address...can do more than one) D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > dajo > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 14:32:28 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:32:28 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: Message-ID: <3B85685C.4FA15FD7@idcomm.com> "J. Wayde Allen" wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > > > I can, but it screws up the format royally. What is displayed is far > > from what prints, it is a quality issue. > > OK, that makes sense ... well it doesn't really makes sense since it > "shouldn't" do that, but lets just say I understand. Yes, the bane of the generic, perfectly "interchangeable" language...interchangeable parts don't. Extension: Interchangeable formatting isn't. > > > Aha, yes, this should do, because as you mention below, I can view dvi. > > If you are still having problems toss me a copy of the LaTeX > document. I could take a look and see if I see anything fundamentally > wrong with it. I may do this as a postmortem, but I need to print, so I'll be able to try postscript versions through ghostview, but other formats will need a printable version anyway...the LaTeX is an intermediate on the way to print. I want to solve my printing issues once and for all, rather than having to send out documents to make them printable. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > - Wayde > (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dajo at frii.com Thu Aug 23 14:35:09 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:35:09 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error In-Reply-To: <3B855E97.F627AC53@interact-tv.com> (herod@interact-tv.com) References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B855E97.F627AC53@interact-tv.com> Message-ID: <200108232035.f7NKZ9Y02084@Rednose.Anthrax> > Let me see if I understand, you can connect to a remote machine > with a socket but not a local file? That is correct. All I want is a byte stream in my code, the language clearly offers the possibility of connecting to a file on the local machine using the language's socket mechanism (is that standard in C, Java, etc.?). > Is it possible that your function > call is still trying to make a connection to a socket. Hmmm, but your > loopback interface should be open according to the ipchains stuff you > sent, so that's not it. ( Check by telneting to the socket on your > local machine. ) How do I telnet to "the" socket on my local machine, please? > > If it's not that funny language with all the parentheses that you > like, :-) can you send a bit of the code? Darn it - it is. But here it is anyway. It is hardly difficult, and barely informative. All the smarts are in the make-socket function. I do think that the correct "No such file or directory." message, and the fact that the message changes when the file exists, taken together tell us something; > > Scott (defun establish-internet-stream (host port) (socket:make-socket :type :stream :format :bivalent :address-family :internet :connect :active :remote-host host :remote-port port)) (defun establish-file-stream (filename) (socket:make-socket :type :stream :format :bivalent :address-family :file :connect :active :remote-filename filename)) (with-open-stream (stream (establish-internet-stream (uri-host uri) (or (uri-port uri) 80))) (with-open-stream (stream (establish-file-stream "/home/dajo/WORK/more/dir/konqueror8Do89a.tmp")) dajo From dajo at frii.com Thu Aug 23 14:53:03 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:53:03 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error In-Reply-To: <3B8567A4.1A635151@idcomm.com> (stimits@idcomm.com) References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B855DEE.DBBA0673@idcomm.com> <200108232020.f7NKK4R02048@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B8567A4.1A635151@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200108232053.f7NKr3H02146@Rednose.Anthrax> > Someone else mentioned use of telnet to test for service. If you telnet > to the X11 port, and it is summarily dropped, without any connection at > all, versus having a connection and then being rejected after typing in > some nonsense, you will know whether it is lack of tcp/ip or if it is > authentication. The port you are interested in is 6000 (also good to > monitor with tail -f /var/log/messages, plus the X11 log itself, > /var/log/XFree86.0.log). Simply try (adjust localhost or ip address): > telnet localhost 6000 This is what I got. Nothing in messages (except see at the end) Rednose dajo ~ telnet localhost 6000 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost.localdomain. Escape character is '^]'. garbage <- I type garbage <- it gives more garbage <- I type more garbage <- it gives Connection closed by foreign host. Rednose dajo ~ > Does it allow you to connect and type nonsense, or does it drop you > without the ability to connect at all? Summarily dropping you indicates > nothing is listening for tcp/ip there. Allowing you in but dropping you > after typing nonsense indicates you are likely working with > authentication failure. Authentication is a big can of worms, but you > can try this for each host (use command line so it isn't permanent) you > might need the X display to allow connections from: > xhost + > (without any url after the '+' should open it to all) > Alternatively: > xhost +127.0.0.1 > (or adjust to a real outside address...can do more than one) > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com Boy, I really thought that you were on to something, but it does not work. Rednose dajo ~ xhost access control enabled, only authorized clients can connect INET:localhost.localdomain INET:Rednose.Anthrax Extra bit: I did get two kernel messages (two more literally while I was typing this). I do not know what all the fields are; are these "enquiries" from "friends" on the net? Aug 23 13:29:14 Rednose pppd[1785]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem Aug 23 13:29:29 Rednose pppd[1785]: local IP address 216.17.156.54 Aug 23 13:29:29 Rednose pppd[1785]: remote IP address 216.17.156.226 Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Flushing all current rules and user defined chains: succeeded Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Clearing all current rules and user defined chains: succeeded Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Applying ipchains firewall rules succeeded Aug 23 14:20:05 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 216.17.175.194:4618 216.17.156.54:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=39517 F=0x4000 T=58 SYN (#4) Aug 23 14:35:11 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 216.17.175.194:1472 216.17.156.54:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=36919 F=0x4000 T=58 SYN (#4) Aug 23 14:48:16 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 211.161.246.245:4261 216.17.156.54:8080 L=48 S=0x00 I=3024 F=0x4000 T=109 SYN (#4) Aug 23 14:48:18 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 211.161.246.245:4261 216.17.156.54:8080 L=48 S=0x00 I=3125 F=0x4000 T=109 SYN (#4) dajo From truskell at Mines.EDU Thu Aug 23 14:57:00 2001 From: truskell at Mines.EDU (Todd Ruskell) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:57:00 -0600 Subject: [lug] StarOffice & xwin32 Message-ID: <3B856E1C.15FA2816@Mines.EDU> I have StarOffice installed on my Linux box. I need to display a StarOffice presentation on a Windows box. The "easy" way to do this is to install StarOffice on the windows box, but it's not clear if I can actually make that happen, since the windows box is not under my control. The other way I have to do this is to use xwin-32. I tried this, and initially had problems with the display of both some "regular" text fonts, as well as display of equations. I added my machine as an x-font-server, and this fixed all the display problems I was having with the text fonts. However, the display of equations is still *very* bad. It appears the windows box is trying to do a font mapping with a close substitute, but it is obviously not working. This begs a couple questions. First, why is StarOffice not getting the equation fonts from my x-font-server? Second, how could I fix it without having to install fonts, or StarOffice, on the Windows box? Any font gurus out there with some suggestions? Thanks, Todd -- Todd Ruskell, Ph.D. Lecturer in Physics Colorado School of Mines Golden, CO 80401 303-384-2080 Fax: 303-273-3919 From kkinder at tridog.com Thu Aug 23 15:03:47 2001 From: kkinder at tridog.com (Ken Kinder) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:03:47 -0600 Subject: [lug] StarOffice & xwin32 References: <3B856E1C.15FA2816@Mines.EDU> Message-ID: <3B856FB3.8E196CE2@tridog.com> Export to power point? Todd Ruskell wrote: > > I have StarOffice installed on my Linux box. I need to display a > StarOffice presentation on a Windows box. The "easy" way to do this is > to install StarOffice on the windows box, but it's not clear if I can > actually make that happen, since the windows box is not under my > control. > > The other way I have to do this is to use xwin-32. I tried this, and > initially had problems with the display of both some "regular" text > fonts, as well as display of equations. I added my machine as an > x-font-server, and this fixed all the display problems I was having with > the text fonts. However, the display of equations is still *very* > bad. It appears the windows box is trying to do a font mapping with a > close substitute, but it is obviously not working. > > This begs a couple questions. First, why is StarOffice not getting the > equation fonts from my x-font-server? Second, how could I fix it > without having to install fonts, or StarOffice, on the Windows box? Any > font gurus out there with some suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Todd > > -- > Todd Ruskell, Ph.D. > Lecturer in Physics > Colorado School of Mines > Golden, CO 80401 > 303-384-2080 > Fax: 303-273-3919 > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Thu Aug 23 15:04:41 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B85685C.4FA15FD7@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > I may do this as a postmortem, but I need to print, so I'll be able to > try postscript versions through ghostview, but other formats will need a > printable version anyway...the LaTeX is an intermediate on the way to > print. OUCH! LaTeX doesn't really make a good intermediate. You're usually better off making a LaTeX document and then processing that to get to the other formats. LaTeX ---> dvi ---> postscript LaTeX ---> html LaTeX ---> pdf going from html ---> LaTeX ---> dvi ---> postscript definitely sounds like the act of a desperate man . Heck a resume' "should" be pretty short. Might be about as quick to hand convert the raw html to pure ASCII and then either roll this into a LaTeX document or go to the word processor of your choice. Perhaps the formating in the html document could also be fixed so the browser could print it too? > I want to solve my printing issues once and for all, rather than > having to send out documents to make them printable. Well ... then start with LaTeX . - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From efm at tummy.com Thu Aug 23 15:03:55 2001 From: efm at tummy.com (Evelyn Mitchell) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:03:55 -0600 Subject: [lug] StarOffice & xwin32 In-Reply-To: <3B856E1C.15FA2816@Mines.EDU>; from truskell@Mines.EDU on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 02:57:00PM -0600 References: <3B856E1C.15FA2816@Mines.EDU> Message-ID: <20010823150355.A2561@tummy.com> There is a small application that comes with StarOffice which can be used to do presentations without installing the full package. You can download StarOffice for WinX, and install just the presentation component StarOffice Player. I've never done this, though. YMMV. Regards, Evelyn Mitchell efm at tummy.com On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 02:57:00PM -0600, Todd Ruskell wrote: > I have StarOffice installed on my Linux box. I need to display a > StarOffice presentation on a Windows box. The "easy" way to do this is > to install StarOffice on the windows box, but it's not clear if I can > actually make that happen, since the windows box is not under my > control. > > The other way I have to do this is to use xwin-32. I tried this, and > initially had problems with the display of both some "regular" text > fonts, as well as display of equations. I added my machine as an > x-font-server, and this fixed all the display problems I was having with > the text fonts. However, the display of equations is still *very* > bad. It appears the windows box is trying to do a font mapping with a > close substitute, but it is obviously not working. > > This begs a couple questions. First, why is StarOffice not getting the > equation fonts from my x-font-server? Second, how could I fix it > without having to install fonts, or StarOffice, on the Windows box? Any > font gurus out there with some suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Todd > > -- > Todd Ruskell, Ph.D. > Lecturer in Physics > Colorado School of Mines > Golden, CO 80401 > 303-384-2080 > Fax: 303-273-3919 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dajo at frii.com Thu Aug 23 15:19:44 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:19:44 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: (wallen@lug.boulder.co.us) References: Message-ID: <200108232119.f7NLJiK02190@Rednose.Anthrax> > Well ... then start with LaTeX . > > - Wayde You have tried the rest, now use the best 8-) Dan, what is wrong with ASCII? If they think that form is more important than content, then you don't want to work for them anyway. dajo From alanr at unix.sh Thu Aug 23 15:18:33 2001 From: alanr at unix.sh (Alan Robertson) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:18:33 -0600 Subject: [lug] High-Availability file server in Sept SysAdmin magazine References: <3B82F725.5C29F0E4@unix.sh> <20010821180911.A10783@tummy.com> <3B840B35.92B35698@unix.sh> Message-ID: <3B857329.C6685BCD@unix.sh> Alan Robertson wrote: > > Evelyn Mitchell wrote: > > > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:04:53PM -0600, Alan Robertson wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > There's a nice article on creating a High-Availability File Server with > > > heartbeat in this month's SysAdmin magazine. Unfortunately, the article > > > itself is not online :-(. > > > > Alan's too modest. > > Well.... not so modest I wouldn't post the note ;-) > > > This article is about his HA-Linux project. > > Congrats on the coverage, Alan! > > The article's actually pretty a pretty good step by step description for > setting up an High-Availability Samba and NFS file server. And, it's now online. I asked them to put it online, and they complied, pretty much immediately. The URL is: http://www.sysadminmag.com/articles/2001/0109/0109c/0109c.htm -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh From herod at interact-tv.com Thu Aug 23 15:47:28 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:47:28 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B855E97.F627AC53@interact-tv.com> <200108232035.f7NKZ9Y02084@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B8579F0.22A3F46F@interact-tv.com> David wrote: > > > Let me see if I understand, you can connect to a remote machine > > with a socket but not a local file? > > That is correct. All I want is a byte stream in my code, the language > clearly offers the possibility of connecting to a file on the local > machine using the language's socket mechanism (is that standard in C, > Java, etc.?). Something on the other side has to be willing to give you the file. Otherwise, what's to stop me from using a similar mechanism to get files that are root-read only. Once a connection is made, however, file based, socket, or even serial port communication is practically identical. ( I know java more for this. I've only used sockets once in C++. ) > > Is it possible that your function > > call is still trying to make a connection to a socket. Hmmm, but your > > loopback interface should be open according to the ipchains stuff you > > sent, so that's not it. ( Check by telneting to the socket on your > > local machine. ) > > How do I telnet to "the" socket on my local machine, please? telnet localhost portnumber for example, telnet localhost 6000 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost.localdomain. Escape character is '^]'. ( 6000 is the X server, the only thing my machine listens to. ) > > If it's not that funny language with all the parentheses that you > > like, :-) can you send a bit of the code? > > Darn it - it is. But here it is anyway. It is hardly difficult, and > barely informative. All the smarts are in the make-socket function. > > I do think that the correct "No such file or directory." message, and > the fact that the message changes when the file exists, taken together > tell us something; Hmmm, no guess now. It all depends on socket:make-socket. I've got to believe that it's not really opening a socket so shouldn't be hitting your ipchains rule. Only your error message looks like the telnet one if I try a non-active port telnet localhost 80 Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused Scott From James_Harris at maxtor.com Thu Aug 23 16:03:11 2001 From: James_Harris at maxtor.com (Harris, James) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:03:11 -0600 Subject: [lug] Tracking Connections Message-ID: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD772@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> Is there any way you could get trippy and write an ipchain that snags every incoming ftp hit and does a traceroute and port scan back onto it? (But still passes the packet through to your ftp service.) That way you could get them while there online and might be able to get some more info. I seem to remember that ipchains can conceptually bump a connection off to a pipe/trigger a script. I may be completely whacked in thinking this, but it's an idea... I'm sure there are a billion reasons not to do this even if it is possible (performance hits, etc...) but I figured I'd throw it out anyway. Anyone want to chime in on my insanity (oh, well, that's probably a BAD thing to ask...) Jim -----Original Message----- From: Kyle Moore [mailto:kmoore at trustamerica.com] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 08:32 To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: [lug] Tracking Connections I have someone who keeps trying anonymous ftp on a couple of our servers. Syslog gives me the IP they are coming from but what I want to find out is how they come through our network. I don't have access to any of the routers' logs. My main concern here is someone is getting into our network that shouldn't...so I want to verify. NOTE: I know how horrible ftp is so I don't need any sermons on the wonders of ssh/scp. -- Kyle _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From herod at interact-tv.com Thu Aug 23 16:09:45 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:09:45 -0600 Subject: [lug] Tracking Connections References: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD772@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> Message-ID: <3B857F29.B8CBD4BD@interact-tv.com> You could watch the data being written into /var/log/messages ( or better yet redirect ipchains messages ), parse them and make the check. Pretty easy perl script really. Scott "Harris, James" wrote: > > Is there any way you could get trippy and write an ipchain that snags every > incoming ftp hit and does a traceroute and port scan back onto it? (But > still passes the packet through to your ftp service.) That way you could > get them while there online and might be able to get some more info. > > I seem to remember that ipchains can conceptually bump a connection off to a > pipe/trigger a script. I may be completely whacked in thinking this, but > it's an idea... I'm sure there are a billion reasons not to do this even if > it is possible (performance hits, etc...) but I figured I'd throw it out > anyway. > > Anyone want to chime in on my insanity (oh, well, that's probably a BAD > thing to ask...) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kyle Moore [mailto:kmoore at trustamerica.com] > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 08:32 > To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > Subject: [lug] Tracking Connections > > I have someone who keeps trying anonymous ftp on a couple of our servers. > Syslog gives me the IP they are coming from but what I want to find out is > how they come through our network. I don't have access to any of the > routers' logs. My main concern here is someone is getting into our network > that shouldn't...so I want to verify. > > NOTE: I know how horrible ftp is so I don't need any sermons on the wonders > of ssh/scp. > > -- > Kyle From gmurray at Mines.EDU Thu Aug 23 16:13:33 2001 From: gmurray at Mines.EDU (Glenn Murray) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] silly emacs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As a cua-mode user, I can confirm that cua-mode does indeed do this. I.e., if you highlight a region, C-c, highlight another region, and C-v, then the first region overwrites the second. It obviates the feature Tony mentions below. Glenn Murray www.mines.edu/~glenn/public_html/Welcome.html On 12 Aug 2001, Tkil wrote: > > in defense of the current behavior, i like the fact that i can cut and > paste in X using only the mouse (no menus, no keyboard). > > having said that, check out the "cua-mode" packages. i forget its > exact name, but they make emacs/xemacs act more like (shudder) windows > applications. it might address this issue of yours. > > t. > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 16:29:22 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:29:22 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B855DEE.DBBA0673@idcomm.com> <200108232020.f7NKK4R02048@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B8567A4.1A635151@idcomm.com> <200108232053.f7NKr3H02146@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B8583C2.EFC3F78C@idcomm.com> David wrote: > > > Someone else mentioned use of telnet to test for service. If you telnet > > to the X11 port, and it is summarily dropped, without any connection at > > all, versus having a connection and then being rejected after typing in > > some nonsense, you will know whether it is lack of tcp/ip or if it is > > authentication. The port you are interested in is 6000 (also good to > > monitor with tail -f /var/log/messages, plus the X11 log itself, > > /var/log/XFree86.0.log). Simply try (adjust localhost or ip address): > > telnet localhost 6000 > This is what I got. Nothing in messages (except see at the end) > > Rednose dajo ~ telnet localhost 6000 > Trying 127.0.0.1... > Connected to localhost.localdomain. > Escape character is '^]'. > garbage <- I type > garbage <- it gives > more garbage <- I type > more garbage <- it gives > Connection closed by foreign host. > Rednose dajo ~ > > > Does it allow you to connect and type nonsense, or does it drop you > > without the ability to connect at all? Summarily dropping you indicates > > nothing is listening for tcp/ip there. Allowing you in but dropping you > > after typing nonsense indicates you are likely working with > > authentication failure. Authentication is a big can of worms, but you > > can try this for each host (use command line so it isn't permanent) you > > might need the X display to allow connections from: > > xhost + > > (without any url after the '+' should open it to all) > > Alternatively: > > xhost +127.0.0.1 > > (or adjust to a real outside address...can do more than one) > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > Boy, I really thought that you were on to something, but it does not > work. > Rednose dajo ~ xhost > access control enabled, only authorized clients can connect > INET:localhost.localdomain > INET:Rednose.Anthrax > > Extra bit: > I did get two kernel messages (two more literally while I was typing > this). I do not know what all the fields are; are these "enquiries" > from "friends" on the net? > Aug 23 13:29:14 Rednose pppd[1785]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem > Aug 23 13:29:29 Rednose pppd[1785]: local IP address 216.17.156.54 > Aug 23 13:29:29 Rednose pppd[1785]: remote IP address 216.17.156.226 > Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Flushing all current rules and user defined chains: succeeded > Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Clearing all current rules and user defined chains: succeeded > Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Applying ipchains firewall rules succeeded > Aug 23 14:20:05 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 216.17.175.194:4618 216.17.156.54:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=39517 F=0x4000 T=58 SYN (#4) > Aug 23 14:35:11 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 216.17.175.194:1472 216.17.156.54:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=36919 F=0x4000 T=58 SYN (#4) > Aug 23 14:48:16 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 211.161.246.245:4261 216.17.156.54:8080 L=48 S=0x00 I=3024 F=0x4000 T=109 SYN (#4) > Aug 23 14:48:18 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 211.161.246.245:4261 216.17.156.54:8080 L=48 S=0x00 I=3125 F=0x4000 T=109 SYN (#4) > > dajo > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug Port 113 is auth port (ident). Your system is requiring auth port be open, and apparently the machine doing the connection does not run auth/ident. You can configure it to not dump machines without identd running, but I can't find out what the requirement is at the moment...have to run. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 16:30:43 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:30:43 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B855DEE.DBBA0673@idcomm.com> <200108232020.f7NKK4R02048@Rednose.Anthrax> <3B8567A4.1A635151@idcomm.com> <200108232053.f7NKr3H02146@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B858413.7FCAA36D@idcomm.com> Forgot a note on the reply from just a moment ago...open up port 113 on both machines. Auth is a security tool, not hole, it should be open. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com David wrote: > > > Someone else mentioned use of telnet to test for service. If you telnet > > to the X11 port, and it is summarily dropped, without any connection at > > all, versus having a connection and then being rejected after typing in > > some nonsense, you will know whether it is lack of tcp/ip or if it is > > authentication. The port you are interested in is 6000 (also good to > > monitor with tail -f /var/log/messages, plus the X11 log itself, > > /var/log/XFree86.0.log). Simply try (adjust localhost or ip address): > > telnet localhost 6000 > This is what I got. Nothing in messages (except see at the end) > > Rednose dajo ~ telnet localhost 6000 > Trying 127.0.0.1... > Connected to localhost.localdomain. > Escape character is '^]'. > garbage <- I type > garbage <- it gives > more garbage <- I type > more garbage <- it gives > Connection closed by foreign host. > Rednose dajo ~ > > > Does it allow you to connect and type nonsense, or does it drop you > > without the ability to connect at all? Summarily dropping you indicates > > nothing is listening for tcp/ip there. Allowing you in but dropping you > > after typing nonsense indicates you are likely working with > > authentication failure. Authentication is a big can of worms, but you > > can try this for each host (use command line so it isn't permanent) you > > might need the X display to allow connections from: > > xhost + > > (without any url after the '+' should open it to all) > > Alternatively: > > xhost +127.0.0.1 > > (or adjust to a real outside address...can do more than one) > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > Boy, I really thought that you were on to something, but it does not > work. > Rednose dajo ~ xhost > access control enabled, only authorized clients can connect > INET:localhost.localdomain > INET:Rednose.Anthrax > > Extra bit: > I did get two kernel messages (two more literally while I was typing > this). I do not know what all the fields are; are these "enquiries" > from "friends" on the net? > Aug 23 13:29:14 Rednose pppd[1785]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/modem > Aug 23 13:29:29 Rednose pppd[1785]: local IP address 216.17.156.54 > Aug 23 13:29:29 Rednose pppd[1785]: remote IP address 216.17.156.226 > Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Flushing all current rules and user defined chains: succeeded > Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Clearing all current rules and user defined chains: succeeded > Aug 23 14:09:46 Rednose ipchains: Applying ipchains firewall rules succeeded > Aug 23 14:20:05 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 216.17.175.194:4618 216.17.156.54:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=39517 F=0x4000 T=58 SYN (#4) > Aug 23 14:35:11 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 216.17.175.194:1472 216.17.156.54:113 L=60 S=0x00 I=36919 F=0x4000 T=58 SYN (#4) > Aug 23 14:48:16 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 211.161.246.245:4261 216.17.156.54:8080 L=48 S=0x00 I=3024 F=0x4000 T=109 SYN (#4) > Aug 23 14:48:18 Rednose kernel: Packet log: input REJECT ppp0 PROTO=6 211.161.246.245:4261 216.17.156.54:8080 L=48 S=0x00 I=3125 F=0x4000 T=109 SYN (#4) > > dajo > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From fschmid at archenergy.com Thu Aug 23 16:31:59 2001 From: fschmid at archenergy.com (Ferdinand Schmid) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:31:59 -0600 Subject: [lug] Monopoly with appeal | csmonitor.com Message-ID: <3B85845F.1040608@archenergy.com> HI, this is an enjoyable story - not fact based, of course! But very closely Linux-M$ related ;) Ferdinand -- Ferdinand Schmid http://www.archenergy.com 303-444-4149 x231 From linuxluke_20 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 16:52:51 2001 From: linuxluke_20 at hotmail.com (luke p) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:52:51 -0600 Subject: [lug] Linux in schools Message-ID: How interested would the BLUG be in doing something similar at a Boulder school? -Luke >From: "Prescott Oelke" >Reply-To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us >To: >Subject: [lug] Linux in schools >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:08:34 -0600 > >An interesting article about something happening in our own back yard >http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,45862,00.html > >Sometimes I think that Microsoft may be it's own worst enemy. > >Prescott Oelke > >_______________________________________________ >Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us >Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lasten at korinth.com Thu Aug 23 17:33:26 2001 From: lasten at korinth.com (Todd) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:33:26 -0600 Subject: [lug] sendmail Message-ID: <0108231733260M.11775@lupy.lanxtra.com> Anyone know how to configure sendmail to accept all email for host.domain.com regardless of address and send it into /dev/null? Thanks for any help, Todd From herod at interact-tv.com Thu Aug 23 17:58:58 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:58:58 -0600 Subject: [lug] Popping in i810_audio Message-ID: <3B8598C2.3E34024F@interact-tv.com> Hello, I've got a new HP Pavilion with an i810 board and i810 audio. I've got a bad "pop" that occurs whenever audio begins to play. This happens with "play" and xmms although it seems to be better if xmms uses the aRts Driver rather than OSS or esd. I'm guessing that the aRtsd code ramps up volume to hide the pop. Anyone familar with this problem? Is it caused by the i810_audio driver ( I've tried the driver with 2.4.8 and it still occurs ). Is the 'Alan Cox' who's credited with writing the driver the same Alan Cox of kernel fame? Kernel Changelogs are not particularly useful for determining if the issue has ever been addressed. Thanks, Scott From rip6 at rip6.net Thu Aug 23 20:40:01 2001 From: rip6 at rip6.net (Mark Horning) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:40:01 -0600 Subject: [lug] funny port numbers References: <3B848144.1A477C32@unix.sh> Message-ID: <3B85BE81.53224FCC@rip6.net> Alan Robertson wrote: > > Also, what is microsoft-ds on port 445? > Possibly w2k's (stolen from Novell) directory services? -- Mark Horning rip6 at rip6.net From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 21:19:53 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:19:53 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: <200108232119.f7NLJiK02190@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <3B85C7D9.9044499F@idcomm.com> David wrote: > > > Well ... then start with LaTeX . > > > > - Wayde > You have tried the rest, now use the best 8-) > > Dan, what is wrong with ASCII? If they think that form is more > important than content, then you don't want to work for them anyway. I can't take that particular road. Some places want Word format, I generally ask if html is ok. But I'm trying to get a job for literate programming, and I'm not doing too well (I was too late for my resume to be any good tonight...even though I gave in and imported the html into Word and then touched it up to get it to print right...I can't even do a head clean or alignment on the ink jet under Linux, which is my most scathing criticism of Linux apps and drivers). D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > dajo > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Thu Aug 23 21:30:03 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:30:03 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: Message-ID: <3B85CA3B.34244D50@idcomm.com> "J. Wayde Allen" wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > > > I may do this as a postmortem, but I need to print, so I'll be able to > > try postscript versions through ghostview, but other formats will need a > > printable version anyway...the LaTeX is an intermediate on the way to > > print. > > OUCH! LaTeX doesn't really make a good intermediate. You're usually > better off making a LaTeX document and then processing that to get to the > other formats. > > LaTeX ---> dvi ---> postscript > LaTeX ---> html > LaTeX ---> pdf > > going from > > html ---> LaTeX ---> dvi ---> postscript > > definitely sounds like the act of a desperate man . I am desparate. > > Heck a resume' "should" be pretty short. Might be about as quick to hand > convert the raw html to pure ASCII and then either roll this into a LaTeX > document or go to the word processor of your choice. Perhaps the > formating in the html document could also be fixed so the browser could > print it too? It is somewhat short, not as short as it should be, but I don't have enough accomplishments to leave out much either. I'll probably try some sort of RTF format, I think LaTeX is too restrictive, and there are no resume formats that I know of. Plain TeX would be good, but what I lack is a a WYSIWYG TeX editor (does such a thing even exist?). Better yet, a WYSIWYG dvi editor (this of course would require some sort of related setting to display on given hardware...assuming it really is device independent, WYSIWYG is something of an oxymoron). At this point I'm looking for the ability to create printed documents, not just electronic format. > > > I want to solve my printing issues once and for all, rather than > > having to send out documents to make them printable. > > Well ... then start with LaTeX . LaTeX seems to require adopting style sheets, something like a DTD in SGML or XML. There are no style sheets for resume format, so LaTeX is somewhat of a poor choice for me, unless it is just some intermediate format. Straight TeX, which does not enforce styles, and is simply (well, not really simple) a page description language (somewhat like PostScript), doesn't seem to have any means of composing other than learning the language and hacking at it with a text editor (this is how I create my html resumes, with nedit or vi). Unfortunately, I'm not enough of a whiz with TeX or PS to write a WYSIWYG editor (it'd be awesome if ghostview was interactive and could be used to compose as well as view). In any case, I took too long and lost my opportunity this evening, so it is a moot point for a few more days. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > - Wayde > (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From jafo at tummy.com Thu Aug 23 22:18:43 2001 From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:18:43 -0600 Subject: [lug] Adding user to two machines at once? In-Reply-To: <20010822235144.C357C3A60@oldschool.jackmoves.com>; from glow@jackmoves.com on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 05:51:44PM -0600 References: <20010822235144.C357C3A60@oldschool.jackmoves.com> Message-ID: <20010823221843.A20203@tummy.com> On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 05:51:44PM -0600, Justin wrote: >the same user to the secondary box. The script of course would need to >somehow log into the secondary box and add the user there. That is what The script can use SSH to log into the second box and create the account. You can either request that it ask you for the password to do so, or use public/private identities (probably combined with the "command=" option in the "authorized_keys" file to specify that only a particular command can be run when using that key. The ssh man page should provide the details on the above. You, of course, have to be VERY careful about the security of this sort of setup. Sean -- "McGuyver stole all his tricks from Dr. Who." Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python From jafo at tummy.com Thu Aug 23 22:31:19 2001 From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:31:19 -0600 Subject: [lug] software raid In-Reply-To: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD760@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com>; from James_Harris@maxtor.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:34:47AM -0600 References: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD760@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> Message-ID: <20010823223119.B20203@tummy.com> On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:34:47AM -0600, Harris, James wrote: >For example, if you want to boot your system off of a mirror, then you'll >need to compile the raid1 personality directly into the kernel (this may The stock redhat kernels build the software RAID as modules, similarly to how they build SCSI drivers. The "mkinitrd" script will then build the an initial ramdisc with those modules built in. Works delightfully. Sean -- "Engineering Tablets? Does that mean if I swallow one, I'll be an engineer?" -- Evelyn Mitchell Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python From jafo at tummy.com Thu Aug 23 22:36:15 2001 From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:36:15 -0600 Subject: [lug] Kingston Switching Hubs In-Reply-To: ; from sanders@MontanaLinux.Org on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:40:14AM -0600 References: <20010821091039.A8518@aberdeen.fpcc.net> Message-ID: <20010823223615.C20203@tummy.com> On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:40:14AM -0600, Warren Sanders wrote: >> Does anyone here have experience with this brand of switch? Is >>it reliable, or is it more like the SMC 10/100 hub at my previous >>employer? (it would go catatonic every month or so) > >Gee I hope the SMCs (16 port switch) we just got for $200 each don't do >that! I hope so too... A few years ago I had a few of the SMC 8-port 10/100 switches that would periodically freak out -- maybe ever month or so... That combined with SMC changing the chipset of the "EtherPower" from the Tulip to their own proprietary chipset without changing the name kind of pissed me off. I was just looking at some Linksys 24-port 10/100 unmanaged switches, but I think they were more in the $300 range. I've been pretty happy with the performance of their 8-port switches though -- especially the 8 LEDs per port -- gobs of information including seperate TX and RX indicators. Sean -- You know you're in Canada when: A radio advertisement comes on advertising "Buy a case of beer, get a free touque." Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python From alanr at unix.sh Fri Aug 24 07:25:13 2001 From: alanr at unix.sh (Alan Robertson) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:25:13 -0600 Subject: [lug] software raid References: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD760@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> <20010823223119.B20203@tummy.com> Message-ID: <3B8655B9.2EF551ED@unix.sh> Sean Reifschneider wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:34:47AM -0600, Harris, James wrote: > >For example, if you want to boot your system off of a mirror, then you'll > >need to compile the raid1 personality directly into the kernel (this may > > The stock redhat kernels build the software RAID as modules, similarly to > how they build SCSI drivers. The "mkinitrd" script will then build the > an initial ramdisc with those modules built in. Works delightfully. A caveat to this: Don't use software raid on 2.2 kernels with a journalling filesytem - online RAID rebuild can destroy the data -- because two separate caches are used for the filesystem and the rebuild data. -- Alan Robertson alanr at unix.sh From jafo at tummy.com Fri Aug 24 07:54:16 2001 From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:54:16 -0600 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010822044413.00af8e70@pop.peakpeak.com>; from ljp@llornkcor.com on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 04:49:19AM -0600 References: <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> <3B829A2D.2E24E82F@idcomm.com> <20010821120807.A3874@amoeba> <20010821200716.A9526@aberdeen.fpcc.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010822044413.00af8e70@pop.peakpeak.com> Message-ID: <20010824075416.B25047@tummy.com> On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 04:49:19AM -0600, ljp wrote: >I've been using SuSE 7 with reiserfs for some months on one of my linux >boxes. I won't install any dist that DOESN'T have reiserfs are an install The short fsck times in reiser are definitely delightful. The other benefit is that it promotes having good backups... We've been running Reiser on all our laptops for about a year now, and every one of them has experienced at least one instance of file-system corruption. The most recent was a hardware problem on Evelyn's machine that ended up locking up her machine maybe 10 times over 3 days. The eventual result was a completely unreadable file-system. Kevin's mail directory at one point just seemed to completely lose it's mind... I've had a couple of incidents with it, one hardware and one not... I actually just converted my laptop back to ext2, hoping to later convert to ext3. My attempts at going to ext3 haven't been entirely successful yet. It has the journal, and says it mounts them as ext3, but a hard power reset causes a full fsck. Sean -- 668: Next door neighbor of the beast. vivivi: The editor of the beast. Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python From DBonnell at co.maxoptix.com Fri Aug 24 08:17:35 2001 From: DBonnell at co.maxoptix.com (Bonnell, Doug) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:17:35 -0600 Subject: [lug] Popping in i810_audio Message-ID: <908E164F458AD311BF4E00805F852201A058E8@exchange> This URL doesn't pertain to the i810 audio per se, but it does mention that the "pop" is caused by the driver doing a "calibration". http://www.acqualan.com.br/misc/cs4237b.html Hope this points in the right direction for you. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Scott A. Herod [mailto:herod at interact-tv.com] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:59 PM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: [lug] Popping in i810_audio Hello, I've got a new HP Pavilion with an i810 board and i810 audio. I've got a bad "pop" that occurs whenever audio begins to play. This happens with "play" and xmms although it seems to be better if xmms uses the aRts Driver rather than OSS or esd. I'm guessing that the aRtsd code ramps up volume to hide the pop. Anyone familar with this problem? Is it caused by the i810_audio driver ( I've tried the driver with 2.4.8 and it still occurs ). Is the 'Alan Cox' who's credited with writing the driver the same Alan Cox of kernel fame? Kernel Changelogs are not particularly useful for determining if the issue has ever been addressed. Thanks, Scott _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From lurgyman at babylonia.flatirons.org Fri Aug 24 08:49:15 2001 From: lurgyman at babylonia.flatirons.org (Dan Kuester) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Linux in schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fairview has a growing Linux base. The server used for the web development class is a RedHat machine, and the school's main site (http://www.flatirons.org) is also a Linux box. We now also have three old (formerly Win95) machines that have been wiped and converted to Linuxism. None of these systems, however (except for possibly the main web server) is run by the faculty -- they are all student-administrated. -- Dan Kuester http://lurgyman.bolognia.net "I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous" - Yogi Berra On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, luke p wrote: > How interested would the BLUG be in doing something similar at a Boulder > school? > > -Luke > > > >From: "Prescott Oelke" > >Reply-To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > >To: > >Subject: [lug] Linux in schools > >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:08:34 -0600 > > > >An interesting article about something happening in our own back yard > >http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,45862,00.html > > > >Sometimes I think that Microsoft may be it's own worst enemy. > > > >Prescott Oelke > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > >Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 09:20:42 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:20:42 -0600 Subject: [lug] what is gnutella-svc? Message-ID: <3B8670CA.94BDC208@idcomm.com> I had several hits from different sites, all on port 6346 tcp. Looking it up, I see it is: gnutella-svc 6346/tcp gnutella-svc Does anyone know what gnutella-svc is? D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From catkinson at circadence.com Fri Aug 24 09:24:30 2001 From: catkinson at circadence.com (Chip Atkinson) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:24:30 -0600 Subject: [lug] what is gnutella-svc? References: <3B8670CA.94BDC208@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B8671AE.5070604@circadence.com> Gnutella is the file sharing protocol that allows you to share files. You need to be running a gnutella program to allow uploads through that port so if you aren't running gnutella programs and you are getting traffic through that port, you should probably shut it down. There is a program gnut, which I've been using and found quite nice. Gnutella allows you to scour the net for music and other files. It's a handy replacement for Napster. Chip D. Stimits wrote: > I had several hits from different sites, all on port 6346 tcp. Looking > it up, I see it is: > gnutella-svc 6346/tcp gnutella-svc > > Does anyone know what gnutella-svc is? > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 09:32:30 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:32:30 -0600 Subject: [lug] what is gnutella-svc? References: <3B8670CA.94BDC208@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B86738E.F0A4A58C@idcomm.com> "D. Stimits" wrote: > > I had several hits from different sites, all on port 6346 tcp. Looking > it up, I see it is: > gnutella-svc 6346/tcp gnutella-svc > > Does anyone know what gnutella-svc is? > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com In partial answer to my own question, it looks like gnutella is some sort of file exchange system, distributed, and designed to search for other gnutella sites. I'm guessing someone is trying to search for security flaws in it, and probably the original version is for mp3 or other copyright material exchange. Does anyone else know anything about it? D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From herod at interact-tv.com Fri Aug 24 09:37:32 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:37:32 -0600 Subject: [lug] what is gnutella-svc? References: <3B8670CA.94BDC208@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B8674BC.6E6E0561@interact-tv.com> Dan, I'd guess that they're checking to see if you have a gnutella server running. I think that some of the root-kitted boxes are being used as 'hidden' file repositories. After hearing some horror stories about copyright police, I'd not be surprised if a lot of copyrighted material is being placed on remote sites. "D. Stimits" wrote: > > I had several hits from different sites, all on port 6346 tcp. Looking > it up, I see it is: > gnutella-svc 6346/tcp gnutella-svc > > Does anyone know what gnutella-svc is? > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 09:55:25 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:55:25 -0600 Subject: [lug] what is gnutella-svc? References: <3B8670CA.94BDC208@idcomm.com> <3B8674BC.6E6E0561@interact-tv.com> Message-ID: <3B8678ED.5230020D@idcomm.com> "Scott A. Herod" wrote: > > Dan, I'd guess that they're checking to see if you have a gnutella > server > running. I think that some of the root-kitted boxes are being used > as 'hidden' file repositories. After hearing some horror stories about > copyright police, I'd not be surprised if a lot of copyrighted material > is being placed on remote sites. This is what I suspect. And I'm guessing that gnutella is showing signs of growing pains (my pains). I've firewalled the port (and it has nothing running on the port either), it looks like I'm going to be getting more hits. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > "D. Stimits" wrote: > > > > I had several hits from different sites, all on port 6346 tcp. Looking > > it up, I see it is: > > gnutella-svc 6346/tcp gnutella-svc > > > > Does anyone know what gnutella-svc is? > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 09:58:55 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:58:55 -0600 Subject: [lug] what is gnutella-svc? References: <3B8670CA.94BDC208@idcomm.com> <3B8671AE.5070604@circadence.com> Message-ID: <3B8679BF.70561C0D@idcomm.com> Chip Atkinson wrote: > > Gnutella is the file sharing protocol that allows you to share files. > You need to be running a gnutella program to allow uploads through that > port so if you aren't running gnutella programs and you are getting > traffic through that port, you should probably shut it down. There is a > program gnut, which I've been using and found quite nice. Gnutella > allows you to scour the net for music and other files. It's a handy > replacement for Napster. I was already firewalled, it looks like gnutella is catching on and going to be pounding on the port. I sure hope gnutella is itself written well enough to not add new exploits. I can understand from the description why a root kit operator might want to install gnutella on a rooted machine though. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > Chip > > D. Stimits wrote: > > > I had several hits from different sites, all on port 6346 tcp. Looking > > it up, I see it is: > > gnutella-svc 6346/tcp gnutella-svc > > > > Does anyone know what gnutella-svc is? > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From fschmid at archenergy.com Fri Aug 24 09:59:49 2001 From: fschmid at archenergy.com (Ferdinand Schmid) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:59:49 -0600 Subject: [lug] Kingston Switching Hubs References: <20010821091039.A8518@aberdeen.fpcc.net> <20010823223615.C20203@tummy.com> Message-ID: <3B8679F5.6050903@archenergy.com> Be careful! I had 2 out of 3 LinkSys switches go out recently (both about 1 year old). They were 8 port switches. Our 24 port switch is still alive (about 1 year old). For doing it cheap I had much better luck with D-Link switches. Ferdinand Sean Reifschneider wrote: > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:40:14AM -0600, Warren Sanders wrote: > >>>Does anyone here have experience with this brand of switch? Is >>>it reliable, or is it more like the SMC 10/100 hub at my previous >>>employer? (it would go catatonic every month or so) >>> >>Gee I hope the SMCs (16 port switch) we just got for $200 each don't do >>that! >> > > I hope so too... A few years ago I had a few of the SMC 8-port 10/100 > switches that would periodically freak out -- maybe ever month or so... > That combined with SMC changing the chipset of the "EtherPower" from the > Tulip to their own proprietary chipset without changing the name kind of > pissed me off. > > I was just looking at some Linksys 24-port 10/100 unmanaged switches, but I > think they were more in the $300 range. I've been pretty happy with the > performance of their 8-port switches though -- especially the 8 LEDs per > port -- gobs of information including seperate TX and RX indicators. > > Sean > -- Ferdinand Schmid http://www.archenergy.com 303-444-4149 x231 From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Fri Aug 24 10:04:04 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B85CA3B.34244D50@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > I'll probably try some sort of RTF format, Well ... I've never had much luck with RTF. It is OK, but in many ways my feeling is that you'd be better off with pure ASCII or by simply using your favorite word processor format. RTF is kind of an intermediate that as far as I can tell never really became that well accepted. > I think LaTeX is too restrictive, and there are no > resume formats that I know of. That doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I can tell LaTeX can do anything you want it to do. Actually my feeling is that it is more flexible than a word processor. > Plain TeX would be good, but what I lack is a a WYSIWYG TeX editor > (does such a thing even exist?). It kind of all depends on your definition of WYSIWYG. If you edit LaTeX/TeX in one window and run xdvi in another you've basically got a WYSIWYG kind of operation. > Better yet, a WYSIWYG dvi editor (this of course would require some > sort of related setting to display on given hardware...assuming it > really is device independent, WYSIWYG is something of an oxymoron). Like I've already said the WYSIWYG display for the dvi file would be something like xdvi. You don't really edit dvi files. I'm not too certain what the dvi file does for us really, but I'm sure that some people on the list could fill us in. > At this point I'm looking for the ability to create printed documents, > not just electronic format. Fundamentally you are starting to run into what I think is a classic problem in document processing. Namely, the realization that there can be more than one incarnation of a document (electronic, printed, braille, etc.). This is where the word processor and WYSIWYG oriented people start to get frustrated. The word processor design (WYSIWYG) is very limited since it makes the assumption that you only want what amounts to a computerized typewriter. This is a very well accepted idea since people have been using pencils, pens, and typewriters for a very long time. It isn't a big jump from traditional typewriting in the office to word processing on the computer, and you gain the computer's ability to erase, change text, incorporate pictures, spell check, etc.. This makes the word processor a well understood tool, but it is very limited. Document processing on the other hand, takes a much broader approach to the problem. Here, the computer gets to know a little bit about the actual content of the document. When you write the document you explicitly note that the following text is the document title, that it is divided into sections and that under each section are paragraphs, etc.. This way the computer can make more informed searches of the document content, pull out specified info (what is the title for instance), and more reasonably format the document for different types of display (CRT, postscript printer, braille reader, text to speech, etc.). (Chris Riddoch our local linguist could probably expand on this if this thread catches on.) > LaTeX seems to require adopting style sheets, something like a DTD in > SGML or XML. Yes and no. LaTeX I think is older than SGML, and certainly older than XML so I'd guess that it was kind of a proof of concept model for SGML. Someone can correct me if I've got this wrong. In any case, I don't think you are slavishly limited to a given style sheet. I'm not sure that you even have to specify a document type to have a valid LaTeX file. On the other hand, most of us do choose a document type that is close to what we want, and then tweak it to fit using over ride commands. If that isn't sufficient, remember that LaTeX is nothing more than a collection of TeX macros so you can include straight TeX in a LaTeX document. I might also add, that the use of style sheets is something that is really powerful if you are working on a collaborative document. This simplifies the editors job. He/She only needs to create the root document with include lines for each of the subsections. The collaborators then work on their respective files, and there is no problem with author "A" and author "B" text having to be reworked by the editor to get consistency in fonts, size, and layout. You can also use something like CVS for revision control if you desire. > There are no style sheets for resume format, so LaTeX is somewhat of a > poor choice for me, unless it is just some intermediate format. Not true, there are style sheets for resumes. Let's see, a short search on the web nets me the following in a few seconds: http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/csuros-miklos/source/resume.cls http://www.rpi.edu/Computing/Consulting/Software/LaTeX/Hints/Resume.html http://web.mit.edu/answers/latex/ http://web.mit.edu/answers/latex/latex_resume.html Simply using a letter or report style would also work. In my opinion, since you are wanting to create multiple file format output, LaTeX actually makes a lot of sense. > Straight TeX, which does not enforce styles, and is simply > (well, not really simple) a page description language (somewhat like > PostScript), doesn't seem to have any means of composing other than > learning the language and hacking at it with a text editor (this is how > I create my html resumes, with nedit or vi). LaTeX is as really just a set of TeX macros. You can't have LaTeX without TeX. Yes, composing in LaTeX is much like composing in html. However, I don't think comparing TeX to postscript is a particularly good analogy. > Unfortunately, I'm not enough of a whiz with TeX or PS to write a > WYSIWYG editor (it'd be awesome if ghostview was interactive and could > be used to compose as well as view). You have to remember, with a document processing system the concept of "What You See is What You Get" is kind of vague. Do you mean WYSIWYG as an html document, or on a CRT, or on a braille reader, or in a text to voice converter, or ...? If that is what you are looking for, then you really want a word processor (MSWord, WordPerfect, StarOffice, ApplixWord, etc.). LyX is kind of what you are asking for, but it isn't strictly WYSIWYG. The term they use is "What You See is What You Mean" (WYSIWYM). This is more in line with the underlying philosophy of the document processing system as opposed to the word processor. Finally, I guess I argue that you don't want a WYSIWYG interface for these programs. What you see now with the use of word processors are people putting a significant amount of effort into how the document looks. What font type, what type size, should it be one or two column, does the picture look right here or should it be moved a bit to the left or right, etc.. What tends to get forgotten if the value of the actual content. One of the claims that the LaTeX system makes, and I have to agree with it, is that you don't have to worry about what the document looks like. It will be formated according to your style file, if you use one, and will therefore be consistent and follow correct, time honored typesetting rules. You only have to create good, solid, real content - very cool! For once, you actually get substance rather than form. - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Fri Aug 24 10:08:37 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:08:37 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Linux in schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, luke p wrote: > How interested would the BLUG be in doing something similar at a Boulder > school? If you want more response you probably need to provide a bit more of an explanation to what you have in mind? - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From herod at interact-tv.com Fri Aug 24 10:14:41 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:14:41 -0600 Subject: [lug] Linux in schools References: Message-ID: <3B867D71.239F60F8@interact-tv.com> I've only had experience with one elementary school but it was a MAC only shop and wouldn't take anything else. I understand that school budgets are tight and suspect that a lot of hardware in schools is supported by faculty in their free time. Scott > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, luke p wrote: > > > How interested would the BLUG be in doing something similar at a Boulder > > school? From kelleys at ucsu.colorado.edu Fri Aug 24 11:24:56 2001 From: kelleys at ucsu.colorado.edu (Scott T. Kelley) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:24:56 -0700 Subject: [lug] KDAT and other tape backup software Message-ID: <003001c12cc1$b1ee9dc0$8a7e8a80@colorado.edu> Has anyone out there used KDAT (Red Hat 7.0)? I can write to my tape drive no prob with tar (/dev/st0) but KDAT won't work. I think I set up the preferences correctly but no dice. Anything I should watch out for? The program seems like a good one in principle, but I am open to other suggestions. Do folks like Amanda? Any other programs I should check out? Thanks in advance for you help/advice on this topic. Cheers! -Scott ------------------- Scott T. Kelley, Ph.D. Campus Box 347 MCD Biology University of Colorado Boulder, CO 80309-0347 Phone: (303) 735-1808 Fax: (303) 492-7744 E-mail: Scott.Kelley at Colorado.edu From dholshou at ball.com Fri Aug 24 10:36:10 2001 From: dholshou at ball.com (Holshouser, David) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:36:10 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print Message-ID: I've finally found and attached a tk script someone gave me in school that gives a decent little gui for the automation and prettification of the tex->printer/ghostview process. I used it for a while and enjoyed it's features. You may find it useful as well. Those of you who are efficiency impared will need to open it and do a search for Gvim and switch the editor lines to that one you use. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! vivivivivivivivivivivivivivivivivivvivivivivivivivi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: D. Stimits [mailto:stimits at idcomm.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:12 PM > To: BLUG > Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print > > > I'm using an html format resume, and am in a bit of a hurry to do some > printing. I have html2latex, and html2ps. The problem with html2ps is > that I can't get rid of its attempt to create an index type > header line > on every page to url links...I don't want anything in the > header/footer. > The problem with the LaTeX version is that I apparently have > nothing to > directly view the results, or print it. I have LyX, but the import of > LaTeX is greyed out, and not available. > > How can I view and print LaTeX? What tool is recommended? (I > may already > have it, I don't have a lot of time to research it though) > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > begin 600 golatex M(R$O=7-R+VQO8V%L+V)I;B]W:7-H."XP"B-/;V]P`HC($AE;&=E($=R96YA9V5R(%-O;&AE:6TL M(&AG6QL+RYT:R]V97(M-"XP+V1O M8R]T:PH*(R!0PH@("`@("`@("!G;&]B86P at 9F]N=`H@ M("`@("`@("!C871C:"![9&5S=')O>2`N:&5L<'1E>'1]"B`@("`@("`@('1O M<&QE=F5L("YH96QP=&5X="`M=VED=&@@-VD*("`@("`@("`@=VT@=&ET;&4@ M+FAE;'!T97AT("1T:71L971E>'0*("`@("`@("`@=VT at 9V5O;65T'0@)'1H971E>'0 at +7=I9'1H(#=I"B`@("`@("`@ M(&)U='1O;B`N:&5L<'1E>'0N;VL at +69O;G0@)&9O;G0 at +71E>'0@(D]K(B`M M8V]M;6%N9"![9&5S=')O>2`N:&5L<'1E>'1]"B`@("`@("`@('!A8VL at +FAE M;'!T97AT+FUS9R`N:&5L<'1E>'0N;VL at +7-I9&4@=&]P("UE>'!A;F0@,2`* M("`@("`@("`@WT@>PH@(&=L;V)A;"!L M8V]M(&)C;VT@>&-O;2!L871E>&9I;&4 at 8FEB9FEL92!D8V]M(&=C;VT at 961I M=&-O;0H@('-E="!L8V]M(")L871E>"`D;&%T97AF:6QE(@H@('-E="!B8V]M M(")B:6)T97@@)&QA=&5X9FEL92(*("!S970@>&-O;2`B>&1V:2`D;&%T97AF M:6QE(@H@('-E="!G8V]M(")G:&]S='9I97<@)&QA=&5X9FEL92(*("!A<'!E M;F0 at 9V-O;2`B+G!S(@H@('-E="!D8V]M(")D=FEP&9I;&4B"B`@87!P96YD(&1C;VT@(BYP"(*("!R971UV-O M;7T@>PH@('-E="!R971C;V1E("!;8V%T8V@@>V5V86P at 97AE8R`D8V]M(#Y` M&5C("1C;VT@/D!S=&1O M=70@,CY`2!E>&ES="X*(PHC"B, at 22=D(&QI M:V4@=&\@8F4 at 86)L92!T;R!T86ME('!A2`D=WT*(W1O<&QE=F5L("1W"G=M('1I=&QE M("X@(D=O($QA5&5X("T@=&\@'0*;&%B96P@)''0@(D5N=&5R(&YA M;64@;V8@;6%I;B!L871E>"!F:6QE(&%N9"!D;R!Y;W5R('-E;&5C=&EO;BXB M("UF;VYT("1F;VYT"G!A8VL@)'"!F:6QE(B`M M=VED=&@@,C`@+6%N8VAO"(*"(* M'0@(DQA=&5X(B`M8V]M;6%N9"![9FEX M8V]M"B`@'0@(D)I8G1E>"(@+6-O;6UA;F0@>V9I>&-O;0H@(')U;B`D8F-O M;7T*8G5T=&]N("1W+F9U;BXQ+F(Q;#, at +69O;G0@)&9O;G0 at +71E>'0@(DQA M=&5X($)I8G1E>"`R*DQA=&5X(B`M8V]M;6%N9"![9FEX8V]M"B`@"`*"F)U='1O;B`D=RYF=6XN,BYX9'9I("UF;VYT("1F M;VYT("UT97AT(")89'9I(B`M8V]M;6%N9"![9FEX8V]M"B`@&%M M<&QE(#$L,RPV+3D@=VEL;"!U2`N<'`N<'`@+69O;G0@)&9O;G0 at +71E>'1V M87)I86)L92!P86=EPH@("`@2`N<'!]"B`@<&%C M:R`N<'`N;7-G("YP<"YP<"`N<'`N;VL at +7-I9&4@=&]P("UE>'!A;F0@,2`* M?0H*8G5T=&]N("1W+F9U;BXR+F=W("UF;VYT("1F;VYT("UT97AT(")':&]S M=%9I97&1V:2`D=RYF=6XN,BYD=FEP&9I;&4B("UC;VUM86YD('MF:7AC;VT*("!R=6YB9R`D961I=&-O;7T@ M"B-B=71T;VX@)'V9I>&-O;0HC("!R=6YB9R`D961I M=&-O;7T@"@IB=71T;VX@)'V9I>&-O;0HC("!R=6YB9R`B>&5M86-S("1B:6)F:6QE(GT@"@IB=71T M;VX@)'PH@('-E="!C;VUM(")G&9I;&4B"B`@87!P96YD(&-O;6T@(BYA=7 at B"B`@R`D;&%T97AF:6QE(@H@(&%P<&5N9"!C;VUM("(N875X(@H@ M(')U;F)G("1C;VUM?0H*<&%C:R`D=RYF=6XN,RYE9&ET("1W+F9U;BXS+F5D M:71R968@)'&9I9R`M9F]N="`D9F]N="`M=&5X="`B6$9I9R(@ M+6-O;6UA;F0@>W)U;F)G(")X9FEG(GT*8G5T=&]N("1W+F9U;BXT+FQP'1V87)I86)L92!P`H*<&%C:R`D=RYF=6XN,2`D=RYF=6XN,B`D=RYF M=6XN,R`D=RYF=6XN-"`M:6X@)''!A;F0@>2`M9FEL;"!X("UP861Y(#(@+7!A9'@@ M, at H*8G5T=&]N("1W+F)U="YA8F]U="`M9F]N="`D9F]N="`M=&5X="`B06)O M=70B("UC;VUM86YD('MI;F9O=VEN9&]W(")';R!,871E>"!V97)S:6]N(#$N M,#%<;EQN5&AI6]U(&QE="!M92!K;F]W/R`Z+2E<;EQN M5&AE('!R;V=R86US(&-O;65S('=I=&@@;F\@=V%R2!A2!B92!F;W5N9"!A="!H='1P.B\O=W=W M+G!V=BYN=&YU+FYO+WYH9W-<;B(@(D%B;W5T(GT@"@IB=71T;VX@)''0@(DAE;'`B("UC;VUM86YD('MI;F9O M=VEN9&]W(")4:&ES('!R;V=R86T@"!O;F-E+"!T M=VEC92!O6]U('5S92!T:&ES('!R;V=R86U<;EQN268@ M>6]U"!F:6QE(&ES(&-A;&QE9"!F:6QE+G1E>"P at 96YT97(@9FEL M92!I;B!T:&4 at 3&%497@@9FEL92!F:65L9"X at 16YT97(@=&AE('=H;VQE(&YA M;64@;V8@>6]U'0@(E%U M:70B("UC;VUM86YD(&5X:70*"G!A8VL@)' I just got an article this morning from techrepublic that talked about a mainframe provided by IBM for Linux Development called the Linux Community Development System... anyone else see it? Just thought some might be able to benefit from this. I just wish I had a project that required a mainframe. *grin* Check out this link: http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/linux/lcds/index.html _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From dajo at frii.com Fri Aug 24 10:45:27 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:45:27 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: (wallen@lug.boulder.co.us) References: Message-ID: <200108241645.f7OGjR407293@Rednose.Anthrax> > > very cool! For once, you actually get substance rather than form. > > - Wayde I too was somewhat surprised to read that LaTeX is restrictive. I observe that there are a lot of books written in LaTeX; and most people never know it, it is that good. I agree with Wayde's comments except for one item, and that is I do think that there is a need for a better WYSIWYG system. > It kind of all depends on your definition of WYSIWYG. If you edit > LaTeX/TeX in one window and run xdvi in another you've basically got a > WYSIWYG kind of operation. The key issue for me is that I want to be able to make a (spelling?) change on page 456 of a 700 page document that I am viewing in xdvi and have that change reflected *now*. As it is I must wait for the whole darned thing to be re-compiled. I really do have this (here over-simplified) problem; and I need to fiddle around sub-setting the document to minimise the nuisance. The Tex/LaTeX system needs to be able to re-compile a small piece of source code and patch it in. Surely that is what happens with Word? The kind of effect I envisage would have, as Wayde suggested, two windows, one with source code, one with the product. You need the source code system, rather than a single window with mouse/icon clickity-click, to keep the substance. dajo From herod at interact-tv.com Fri Aug 24 10:51:05 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:51:05 -0600 Subject: [lug] Popping in i810_audio References: <908E164F458AD311BF4E00805F852201A058E8@exchange> Message-ID: <3B8685F9.C3A2D0B6@interact-tv.com> Hi Doug, The kernel mods that he has don't mean much to me but I did start looking at the i810_audio driver. It looks the driver needs to sync the clock rate used by the ac97 codec. It does this every time something is played by turning the ac97's power off then back on. I'm betting that's the "pop". ( Down about line 428 of i810_audio.c, 2.4.8 version. ) Scott "Bonnell, Doug" wrote: > > This URL doesn't pertain to the i810 audio per se, but > it does mention that the "pop" is caused by the driver > doing a "calibration". > > http://www.acqualan.com.br/misc/cs4237b.html > > Hope this points in the right direction for you. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott A. Herod [mailto:herod at interact-tv.com] > > Hello, > > I've got a new HP Pavilion with an i810 board and i810 audio. > I've got a bad "pop" that occurs whenever audio begins to play. > This happens with "play" and xmms although it seems to be better > if xmms uses the aRts Driver rather than OSS or esd. I'm guessing > that the aRtsd code ramps up volume to hide the pop. > > Anyone familar with this problem? Is it caused by the i810_audio > driver ( I've tried the driver with 2.4.8 and it still occurs ). > Is the 'Alan Cox' who's credited with writing the driver the same > Alan Cox of kernel fame? Kernel Changelogs are not particularly > useful for determining if the issue has ever been addressed. > > Thanks, > > Scott From rotering at animalcules.com Fri Aug 24 10:55:00 2001 From: rotering at animalcules.com (rotering at animalcules.com) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:55:00 -0600 Subject: [lug] KDAT and other tape backup software In-Reply-To: <003001c12cc1$b1ee9dc0$8a7e8a80@colorado.edu>; from kelleys@ucsu.colorado.edu on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:24:56AM -0700 References: <003001c12cc1$b1ee9dc0$8a7e8a80@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <20010824105459.A2096@amoeba> On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:24:56AM -0700, Scott T. Kelley wrote: > Any other [tape backup] programs I should check out? I've used Arkeia's (http://www.arkeia.com) free (beer) backup system at home for a while now and it's doing a fine job. I like that I can back up my Windows boxen from a central linux machine. I've done several small restores and they've all been fine. The only real complaint I have is that the interface is a bit baroque. From cmorrison at greeleynet.com Fri Aug 24 04:59:45 2001 From: cmorrison at greeleynet.com (Chuck Morrison) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:59:45 +0000 Subject: [lug] wu-ftpd settings problem - xinetd settings ? Message-ID: <01082410594500.01447@sp2.home> Hi, I'm having a problem with the default setup for wu-ftpd as per the default RH7.1 server install. It works fine except that prior to giving the login prompt it attempts to find the identity of the user on his/her client machine. This results in a 30 second timeout if the ftp client doesn't comply with this request. The wu-ftpd FAQ gives this very precise suggestion: "Logins to the ftp server take a long time, after that things run smooth Possible causes: IDENT (RFC931) lookup is enabled in wu-ftpd. This has a timeout of 10 seconds. If the protocol (port 113) gets blocked by a firewall or suchlike, it will wait for timeout. If it is 30 seconds and you are using redhat 7.x with xinetd, <>> disable AUTH in inetd as well. Any other time period: DNS is broken for the IP address the connection is coming from. " There is no inetd or inetd.conf on this server. There is an xinetd.conf, but no clue in the xinetd.conf file or man page about turning off AUTH for any service. This should be really simple but I haven't had to deal with AUTH before and don't know what to try. Any clues anyone can give me ? Chuck Morrison cmorrison at greeleynet.com From kenw at ihs.com Fri Aug 24 11:12:49 2001 From: kenw at ihs.com (Ken Weinert) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:12:49 -0600 Subject: [lug] Splitting mail file Message-ID: <20010824111249.N16147@adamselene.ihs.com> Any know of any utilities off hand that will take a mail spool and split it so that each message gets put into its own file? -- Ken Weinert kenw at ihs.com 303-858-6956 (V) 303-705-4258 (F) GnuPG KeyID: 9274F1CE GnuPG available at http://www.gnupg.org/ GnuPG Key Fingerprint: 1D87 3720 BB77 4489 A928 79D6 F8EC DD76 9274 F1CE Why is "abbreviation" such a long word? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kkinder at tridog.com Fri Aug 24 11:14:41 2001 From: kkinder at tridog.com (Ken Kinder) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:14:41 -0600 Subject: [lug] Splitting mail file References: <20010824111249.N16147@adamselene.ihs.com> Message-ID: <3B868B81.12FD63FB@tridog.com> Just split by "\nFrom: " I think. Ken Weinert wrote: > > Any know of any utilities off hand that will take a mail spool and split > it so that each message gets put into its own file? > > -- > Ken Weinert kenw at ihs.com 303-858-6956 (V) 303-705-4258 (F) > GnuPG KeyID: 9274F1CE GnuPG available at http://www.gnupg.org/ > GnuPG Key Fingerprint: 1D87 3720 BB77 4489 A928 79D6 F8EC DD76 9274 F1CE > Why is "abbreviation" such a long word? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Fri Aug 24 11:20:44 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <200108241645.f7OGjR407293@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, David wrote: > observe that there are a lot of books written in LaTeX; and most > people never know it, it is that good. Not surprising since this is what it was designed to do. > The key issue for me is that I want to be able to make a (spelling?) > change on page 456 of a 700 page document that I am viewing in xdvi > and have that change reflected *now*. As it is I must wait for the > whole darned thing to be re-compiled. That is true. The good news is that it usually doesn't take that long to recompile and xdvi will show the change automatically once the compilation has completed. Of course compiling a 700 page document might take a lot longer than what I'm used to. > I really do have this (here over-simplified) problem; and I need to > fiddle around sub-setting the document to minimise the nuisance. > > The Tex/LaTeX system needs to be able to re-compile a small piece of > source code and patch it in. That is an interesting idea. I was wondering if the \include{file} command would work if the file were a dvi, but my Lamport book seems to say that the file has to be LaTeX/TeX source. > Surely that is what happens with Word? I don't think that word files are compiled. My "guess" is that the program takes your input and writes symbols to a file that its reader displays. > The kind of effect I envisage would have, as Wayde suggested, two > windows, one with source code, one with the product. You need the > source code system, rather than a single window with mouse/icon > clickity-click, to keep the substance. Yes ... the way I usually work is with the source editor in one terminal window; another window where I can type the compile commands, watch the compiler messages, and do spell checking; and with xdvi running in a third window if I want a graphical display. This is basically the same is what you are asking for. The only thing I don't have a way to do is partially compile the document for a quick change to a typo in some odd chapter. This may not be possible since a change like this can cause spacing changes that may need to be propagated through the document. LyX is sort of supposed to combine all of this together into a graphical interface. However, I've not got much experience with it. I tried it once and it seemed OK, but it didn't capture my undivided attention. Might be worth a look? - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From herod at interact-tv.com Fri Aug 24 11:23:10 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:23:10 -0600 Subject: [lug] mouseconfig? Message-ID: <3B868D7E.548D921D@interact-tv.com> Hi, Anyone notice that mouseconfig writes a file that it can't read? I guess it's one-use-only. ( You can manually delete the DEVICE line from /etc/sysconfig/mouse to get it to work again. ) Scott From RRiggs at doubleclick.net Fri Aug 24 11:42:24 2001 From: RRiggs at doubleclick.net (Riggs, Rob) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:42:24 -0600 Subject: [lug] Splitting mail file Message-ID: <6171BE9F602BD411B76D00508B9585D401169C56@brm-ex02.abacus-direct.com> Yeah -- Python! :-) The following script accepts a mailbox filename on the command line and splits each message into files named "1", "2", "3", etc. within the current directory. #!/usr/bin/python import sys, os from mailbox import UnixMailbox mboxFile = open(sys.argv[1]) mbox = UnixMailbox(mboxFile) count = 1 while 1: mesg = mbox.next() if not mesg: break fp = open('%d' % count, 'w') for line in mesg.headers: fp.write(line) fp.write('\n') fp.write(mesg.fp.read()) fp.close() count = count + 1 -----Original Message----- From: Ken Weinert [mailto:kenw at ihs.com] Any know of any utilities off hand that will take a mail spool and split it so that each message gets put into its own file? From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 11:49:45 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:49:45 -0600 Subject: [lug] wu-ftpd settings problem - xinetd settings ? References: <01082410594500.01447@sp2.home> Message-ID: <3B8693B9.1EA266EF@idcomm.com> Chuck Morrison wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm having a problem with the default setup for wu-ftpd as per the default > RH7.1 server install. It works fine except that prior to giving the login > prompt it attempts to find the identity of the user on his/her client > machine. This results in a 30 second timeout if the ftp client doesn't comply > with this request. > > The wu-ftpd FAQ gives this very precise suggestion: > > "Logins to the ftp server take a long time, after that things run smooth > > Possible causes: IDENT (RFC931) lookup is enabled in wu-ftpd. This has a > timeout of 10 seconds. If the protocol (port 113) gets blocked by a firewall > or suchlike, it will wait for timeout. If it is 30 seconds and you are using > redhat 7.x with xinetd, <>> disable AUTH in inetd as well. Any other > time period: DNS is broken for the IP address the connection is coming from. " > > There is no inetd or inetd.conf on this server. There is an xinetd.conf, but > no clue in the xinetd.conf file or man page about turning off AUTH for any > service. This should be really simple but I haven't had to deal with AUTH > before and don't know what to try. Any clues anyone can give me ? > > Chuck Morrison > cmorrison at greeleynet.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug I'm making a guess here to some extent. You need to go to /etc/xinetd.d/, and edit file wu-ftpd. In that file is a line like: server_args = -l -a I believe you need to try adding a "-I": server_args = -l -a -I Then run: /etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart Give that a try. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From kenw at ihs.com Fri Aug 24 11:52:27 2001 From: kenw at ihs.com (Ken Weinert) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:52:27 -0600 Subject: [lug] Splitting mail file In-Reply-To: <6171BE9F602BD411B76D00508B9585D401169C56@brm-ex02.abacus-direct.com>; from RRiggs@doubleclick.net on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:42:24AM -0600 References: <6171BE9F602BD411B76D00508B9585D401169C56@brm-ex02.abacus-direct.com> Message-ID: <20010824115227.P16147@adamselene.ihs.com> Thanks! What would I have to add to split any attachements into their own file? :) No need to reply if it's going to take a bunch of time - just getting this much is a great help. * Riggs, Rob (RRiggs at doubleclick.net) [010824 17:44]: > Yeah -- Python! :-) > > The following script accepts a mailbox filename on the command line and > splits each message into files named "1", "2", "3", etc. within the current > directory. > > > #!/usr/bin/python > > import sys, os > > from mailbox import UnixMailbox > > mboxFile = open(sys.argv[1]) > mbox = UnixMailbox(mboxFile) > > count = 1 > > while 1: > mesg = mbox.next() > if not mesg: break > fp = open('%d' % count, 'w') > for line in mesg.headers: > fp.write(line) > fp.write('\n') > fp.write(mesg.fp.read()) > fp.close() > count = count + 1 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Weinert [mailto:kenw at ihs.com] > > Any know of any utilities off hand that will take a mail spool and split > it so that each message gets put into its own file? > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug -- Ken Weinert kenw at ihs.com 303-858-6956 (V) 303-705-4258 (F) GnuPG KeyID: 9274F1CE GnuPG available at http://www.gnupg.org/ GnuPG Key Fingerprint: 1D87 3720 BB77 4489 A928 79D6 F8EC DD76 9274 F1CE Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. --Somerset Maugham -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available URL: From RRiggs at doubleclick.net Fri Aug 24 11:59:46 2001 From: RRiggs at doubleclick.net (Riggs, Rob) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:59:46 -0600 Subject: [lug] Splitting mail file Message-ID: <6171BE9F602BD411B76D00508B9585D401169C58@brm-ex02.abacus-direct.com> Check out the Python library mimetools package docs. (www.python.org and follow the documentation link.) The mimetools package can split the MIME attachments and decode them for you. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Weinert [mailto:kenw at ihs.com] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 11:52 AM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] Splitting mail file Thanks! What would I have to add to split any attachements into their own file? :) No need to reply if it's going to take a bunch of time - just getting this much is a great help. * Riggs, Rob (RRiggs at doubleclick.net) [010824 17:44]: > Yeah -- Python! :-) > > The following script accepts a mailbox filename on the command line and > splits each message into files named "1", "2", "3", etc. within the current > directory. > > > #!/usr/bin/python > > import sys, os > > from mailbox import UnixMailbox > > mboxFile = open(sys.argv[1]) > mbox = UnixMailbox(mboxFile) > > count = 1 > > while 1: > mesg = mbox.next() > if not mesg: break > fp = open('%d' % count, 'w') > for line in mesg.headers: > fp.write(line) > fp.write('\n') > fp.write(mesg.fp.read()) > fp.close() > count = count + 1 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Weinert [mailto:kenw at ihs.com] > > Any know of any utilities off hand that will take a mail spool and split > it so that each message gets put into its own file? > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug -- Ken Weinert kenw at ihs.com 303-858-6956 (V) 303-705-4258 (F) GnuPG KeyID: 9274F1CE GnuPG available at http://www.gnupg.org/ GnuPG Key Fingerprint: 1D87 3720 BB77 4489 A928 79D6 F8EC DD76 9274 F1CE Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. --Somerset Maugham From gsexton at mhsoftware.com Fri Aug 24 12:10:42 2001 From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (Sexton, George) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:10:42 -0600 Subject: [lug] mouseconfig? In-Reply-To: <3B868D7E.548D921D@interact-tv.com> Message-ID: If you are using RedHat 7.1, you might want to download the updated version . I think it corrects that issue. -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us]On Behalf Of Scott A. Herod Sent: 24 August, 2001 11:23 AM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: [lug] mouseconfig? Hi, Anyone notice that mouseconfig writes a file that it can't read? I guess it's one-use-only. ( You can manually delete the DEVICE line from /etc/sysconfig/mouse to get it to work again. ) Scott _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From cmorrison at greeleynet.com Fri Aug 24 06:12:32 2001 From: cmorrison at greeleynet.com (Chuck Morrison) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:12:32 +0000 Subject: [lug] wu-ftpd settings problem - xinetd settings ? In-Reply-To: <3B8693B9.1EA266EF@idcomm.com> References: <01082410594500.01447@sp2.home> <3B8693B9.1EA266EF@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01082412123201.01447@sp2.home> I tried it, but it didn't appear to change anything. I've been trying to find out what the -a does. Don't know if it might be auth or not. On Friday 24 August 2001 17:49, you wrote: > > I'm making a guess here to some extent. You need to go to > /etc/xinetd.d/, and edit file wu-ftpd. In that file is a line like: > server_args = -l -a > > I believe you need to try adding a "-I": > server_args = -l -a -I > > Then run: > /etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart > > Give that a try. > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From herod at interact-tv.com Fri Aug 24 12:35:46 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:35:46 -0600 Subject: [lug] mouseconfig? References: Message-ID: <3B869E82.3B375B79@interact-tv.com> Thanks, George. We're playing around with a couple of different kind of mice and I'm getting tired of telling people to delete the last line each time they switch mice. You wouldn't know anything about sound drivers, would you? I'm trying to make my i810 stop popping. I've gotten rid of the pop but now I've got "The Chipmunks Sing Zappa". Everyone in the office does have tears from laughter, though. I don't think his estate would approve. Scott "Sexton, George" wrote: > > If you are using RedHat 7.1, you might want to download the updated version > . I think it corrects that issue. > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us]On > > Hi, > > Anyone notice that mouseconfig writes a file that it can't read? > I guess it's one-use-only. ( You can manually delete the DEVICE > line from /etc/sysconfig/mouse to get it to work again. ) > > Scott From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 13:05:05 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:05:05 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: Message-ID: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com> "J. Wayde Allen" wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > > > I'll probably try some sort of RTF format, > > Well ... I've never had much luck with RTF. It is OK, but in many ways my > feeling is that you'd be better off with pure ASCII or by simply using > your favorite word processor format. RTF is kind of an intermediate that > as far as I can tell never really became that well accepted. One thing I am frustrated with by plain ascii is lack of color (this isn't just for resume's, but includes other printing, e.g., syntax highlighted source code). RTF may have some ability to work with color, but I suspect you are right about it just leading to frustration. > > > I think LaTeX is too restrictive, and there are no > > resume formats that I know of. > > That doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I can tell LaTeX can do > anything you want it to do. Actually my feeling is that it is more > flexible than a word processor. I was under the impression that LaTeX macros were there to do something similar to this: Take content described logically, such as a heading, title, or paragraph, and format it to conform to a style specification. Thus, a need for a detailed style specification. It sounds like LaTeX also has an ability to work more in a free-form way, is this correct? Can I work without a style specification? > > > Plain TeX would be good, but what I lack is a a WYSIWYG TeX editor > > (does such a thing even exist?). > > It kind of all depends on your definition of WYSIWYG. If you edit > LaTeX/TeX in one window and run xdvi in another you've basically got a > WYSIWYG kind of operation. I would like to do things like highlight text, then set it to bold or a color or a specific font size. There is a certain difficulty in viewing on one window and then searching for the right spot in another window for editing. LyX is the closest I know of at the moment, and I'm not very good with it. Btw, I've never seen color in xdvi, does xdvi support color? Probably I simply haven't run into a color case. As far as this sort of scheme goes though, I like the way ghostview can monitor a file and auto-update each time the file is edited. Ghostview is very nice, it even allows color, and is a nice printing aid. If ghostview could allow interactive editing, rather than just display, I'd be incredibly thrilled (cheap thrills?). > > > Better yet, a WYSIWYG dvi editor (this of course would require some > > sort of related setting to display on given hardware...assuming it > > really is device independent, WYSIWYG is something of an oxymoron). > > Like I've already said the WYSIWYG display for the dvi file would be > something like xdvi. You don't really edit dvi files. I'm not too > certain what the dvi file does for us really, but I'm sure that some > people on the list could fill us in. As someone mentioned, there is a need to recompile from TeX to produce the dvi format; the dvi is the binary form, not useful for human eyes, but it could be used directly by an editor. Or an interpreter would be nice, to allow updates to occur simultaneously with edits (this is why ghostview works so nicely...it has an interpreter and the postscript itself is not compiled to an intermediate form that would possibly take multiple passes). Monitoring through xdvi, and editing elsewhere, is a lot of work when just maintaining and altering a document (one that might have minor changes on a daily basis). It seems I'm going to have to learn to do this though. I already have some TeX references, but they are primarily mathematics references, and don't cover topics like color. > > > At this point I'm looking for the ability to create printed documents, > > not just electronic format. > > Fundamentally you are starting to run into what I think is a classic > problem in document processing. Namely, the realization that there can be > more than one incarnation of a document (electronic, printed, braille, > etc.). This is where the word processor and WYSIWYG oriented people start > to get frustrated. Yes, I'm hoping to do some basic editing, and have high quality output for printing. The document typesetting abilities go beyond what I need, but the solutions that don't use TeX or PostScript on Linux seem to fall short in a lot of ways, most often when printing. So the next step up, to get good printing, is a major leap beyond what I need, and nothing in between exists. In a way similar to how XML was designed as a simpler substitute to SGML, while still being convenient in ways of HTML, I wish there was an intermediate TeX and intermediate PostScript...designed to actually provide good printing control, but not designed to be a publishing tool with control to a ten-thousandth of an inch. > > The word processor design (WYSIWYG) is very limited since it makes the > assumption that you only want what amounts to a computerized > typewriter. This is a very well accepted idea since people have been > using pencils, pens, and typewriters for a very long time. It isn't a big > jump from traditional typewriting in the office to word processing on the > computer, and you gain the computer's ability to erase, change text, > incorporate pictures, spell check, etc.. This makes the word processor a > well understood tool, but it is very limited. This is actually not too bad for many of the things I want to do (not all). I currently need a free form editing device that allows color and polished look, and then actually prints the same as it looks on the monitor (to some degree I consider that a "quality" issue). The second thing I need is a format that I can send electronically, and expect the other end to also be able to print a reasonable facsimile. HTML fails because the viewers being used (probably IE or Netscape) are inconsistent at printing, even when they display the same. It can come close though in terms of being able to send things to other people and at least have the display on the monitor look nice, over a variety of o/s (there are some things that one has to be careful with, but display gotchas are far fewer than print gotchas). If html tools that are in general use would actually print the same as they display, I'd be satisfied with that for now. > > Document processing on the other hand, takes a much broader approach to > the problem. Here, the computer gets to know a little bit about the > actual content of the document. When you write the document you > explicitly note that the following text is the document title, that it is > divided into sections and that under each section are paragraphs, > etc.. This way the computer can make more informed searches of the > document content, pull out specified info (what is the title for > instance), and more reasonably format the document for different types of > display (CRT, postscript printer, braille reader, text to speech, etc.). This is good when writing a book or thesis or other paper that will be processed by someone who is knowledgable in the area. It doesn't work very well for general information interchange to the average user. On the other hand, the means on Linux which work for general interchange with other o/s's and non-technical users don't print right. Both of them fail in one area. Skimming ahead, I see some URL's for resume styles, which might do the job, if I can take a TeX (LaTeX) document generated from one of these, and come up with a form that I can (a) print locally, and (b) exports a format other o/s non-technical users can view. Possibly if there is a problem with the latter exported format not printing correctly, I could print the document myself and send it in parallel with email of the electronic format. So far the best solution that can be used by non-technical users, and also prints the way it displays, seems to be Word (but then it has the reverse frustration...I can't seem to produce it on Linux...even app's that have an import/export ability don't do it correctly and fail...when it doesn't actually crash or refuse to import, the imported format often loses quality when trying to print it, it prints what is displayed). > > (Chris Riddoch our local linguist could probably expand on this if this > thread catches on.) > > > LaTeX seems to require adopting style sheets, something like a DTD in > > SGML or XML. > > Yes and no. LaTeX I think is older than SGML, and certainly older than > XML so I'd guess that it was kind of a proof of concept model for > SGML. Someone can correct me if I've got this wrong. > > In any case, I don't think you are slavishly limited to a given style > sheet. I'm not sure that you even have to specify a document type to have > a valid LaTeX file. On the other hand, most of us do choose a document > type that is close to what we want, and then tweak it to fit using over > ride commands. If that isn't sufficient, remember that LaTeX is nothing > more than a collection of TeX macros so you can include straight TeX > in a LaTeX document. My main interaction attempts with LaTeX have so far been through LyX, which probably places more constraints that pure TeX or LaTeX. I really wish the import menu didn't have everything except ascii text deactivated (the export menu doesn't even have any entries). I probably need to give up on LyX and look into actually learning TeX (I wonder if windows understands any of the TeX output formats without installing special software?). > > I might also add, that the use of style sheets is something that is really > powerful if you are working on a collaborative document. This simplifies > the editors job. He/She only needs to create the root document with > include lines for each of the subsections. The collaborators then work on > their respective files, and there is no problem with author "A" and author > "B" text having to be reworked by the editor to get consistency in fonts, > size, and layout. You can also use something like CVS for revision > control if you desire. So far I haven't collaberated with anyone on my resume :) > > > There are no style sheets for resume format, so LaTeX is somewhat of a > > poor choice for me, unless it is just some intermediate format. > > Not true, there are style sheets for resumes. Let's see, a short search > on the web nets me the following in a few seconds: I've bookmarked these, and will try to use them. I wonder if it is possible to use them with LyX, does anyone know? > > http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/csuros-miklos/source/resume.cls > http://www.rpi.edu/Computing/Consulting/Software/LaTeX/Hints/Resume.html > http://web.mit.edu/answers/latex/ > http://web.mit.edu/answers/latex/latex_resume.html > > Simply using a letter or report style would also work. In my opinion, > since you are wanting to create multiple file format output, LaTeX > actually makes a lot of sense. What format would you suggest which: (a) is readable by non-technical windows users (e.g., IE or Word can import it and the imported version looks like what I see from Linux...PostScript fails here), (b) prints correctly from default viewing tools of windows (html fails here), and (c) has at least some application available on Linux which will allow me to print it correctly (PostScript works if the PostScript output actually looks like the screen view) without rebooting to windows? It is a tall order, and I don't think there is a solution that is completely satisfactory. > > > Straight TeX, which does not enforce styles, and is simply > > (well, not really simple) a page description language (somewhat like > > PostScript), doesn't seem to have any means of composing other than > > learning the language and hacking at it with a text editor (this is how > > I create my html resumes, with nedit or vi). > > LaTeX is as really just a set of TeX macros. You can't have LaTeX without > TeX. Yes, composing in LaTeX is much like composing in html. However, I > don't think comparing TeX to postscript is a particularly good analogy. > > > Unfortunately, I'm not enough of a whiz with TeX or PS to write a > > WYSIWYG editor (it'd be awesome if ghostview was interactive and could > > be used to compose as well as view). > > You have to remember, with a document processing system the concept of > "What You See is What You Get" is kind of vague. Do you mean WYSIWYG as an > html document, or on a CRT, or on a braille reader, or in a text to voice > converter, or ...? If that is what you are looking for, then you really > want a word processor (MSWord, WordPerfect, StarOffice, ApplixWord, etc.). > LyX is kind of what you are asking for, but it isn't strictly WYSIWYG. > The term they use is "What You See is What You Mean" (WYSIWYM). This is > more in line with the underlying philosophy of the document processing > system as opposed to the word processor. I probably do want a word processor. I have Applix, but it no longer works with RH 7.1, even with every compat library there is (my Applix version is ready for the trash can). Applix and StarOffice can't be exchanged with windows users; even when they claim to export or import word, they don't do it correctly, and every export needs a reboot to win to see if it exported properly. I guess I need to run vmware (which fails on my SMP motherboards) and windows, printing and document exchange formats just don't mix, and it seems they must be done on a single application; none of the Linux apps do the job completely. > > Finally, I guess I argue that you don't want a WYSIWYG interface for these > programs. What you see now with the use of word processors are people > putting a significant amount of effort into how the document looks. What > font type, what type size, should it be one or two column, does the > picture look right here or should it be moved a bit to the left or right, > etc.. What tends to get forgotten if the value of the actual > content. One of the claims that the LaTeX system makes, and I have to > agree with it, is that you don't have to worry about what the document > looks like. It will be formated according to your style file, if you use > one, and will therefore be consistent and follow correct, time honored > typesetting rules. You only have to create good, solid, real content - > very cool! For once, you actually get substance rather than form. Any "polished" business paper (versus technical documents) requires attention to appearance. I need a polished look in both printed form and electronic form, with the expectation that if I send an electronic format, it might be printed. There are many people that make a decision to drop further consideration of a document the moment it looks sloppy, has spelling errors, so on...they don't have time to deal with frustrations of fixing someone else's carelessness, and I have no influence whatsoever on changing their way of thinking (nor do I have the power to ignore these people). If windows and standard applications of all the platforms and users that I must communicate with all understood TeX, and had the ability to both view and print it, I'd snap it up in an instant and become a guru in the field. The strengths that are mentioned above about the ability to create a consistent format and enforce a style are good for professional documentation and academic publishing...but within the area of casual exchange among unskilled computer users it breaks down, and becomes a road block. I suspect that if someone at MS suggested creating TeX import and export abilities in Word, they'd be fired. I'm overly pessimistic in this area because it has been a major frustration that I can't do anything about. I'm tied by what is available to the common windows user, and by what I can print from linux. Even if I can ignore windows users, I can't seem to get easier word processing documents to print right, so I'm forced to learn TeX or PostScript and write code to print a nice document...I can no longer just do simple edits and be done, I have to manually rewrite raw document tags. And in the end, when I find what I need, I still need to reboot to win just to put in a new ink cartridge and align the ink jet printer, so I still can't avoid win. Major frustration. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > - Wayde > (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 13:09:44 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:09:44 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: Message-ID: <3B86A678.38269C0C@idcomm.com> "Holshouser, David" wrote: > > I've finally found and attached a tk script someone gave me in school that > gives a decent little gui for the automation and prettification of the > tex->printer/ghostview process. > > I used it for a while and enjoyed it's features. You may find it useful as > well. > > Those of you who are efficiency impared will need to open it and do a search > for Gvim and switch the editor lines to that one you use. > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > vivivivivivivivivivivivivivivivivivvivivivivivivivi > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very interesting...I'm playing with this script. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: D. Stimits [mailto:stimits at idcomm.com] > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:12 PM > > To: BLUG > > Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print > > > > > > I'm using an html format resume, and am in a bit of a hurry to do some > > printing. I have html2latex, and html2ps. The problem with html2ps is > > that I can't get rid of its attempt to create an index type > > header line > > on every page to url links...I don't want anything in the > > header/footer. > > The problem with the LaTeX version is that I apparently have > > nothing to > > directly view the results, or print it. I have LyX, but the import of > > LaTeX is greyed out, and not available. > > > > How can I view and print LaTeX? What tool is recommended? (I > > may already > > have it, I don't have a lot of time to research it though) > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > Name: golatex > golatex Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) > Encoding: x-uuencode > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 13:21:10 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:21:10 -0600 Subject: [lug] wu-ftpd settings problem - xinetd settings ? References: <01082410594500.01447@sp2.home> <3B8693B9.1EA266EF@idcomm.com> <01082412123201.01447@sp2.home> Message-ID: <3B86A926.40F01D38@idcomm.com> Chuck Morrison wrote: > > I tried it, but it didn't appear to change anything. I've been trying to find > out what the -a does. Don't know if it might be auth or not. That means it looks at /etc/ftpaccess file. It could, since ftpaccess can be configured to allow or deny some ftp connections (such as anonymous). There *might* be an auth style entry in that file, but the way I know of to tell wu-ftpd to require auth is through the -I option. You could look closely at "man ftpaccess", but I have not dissected it in detail...there is a note on RFC931 configuration and other timeouts, you might look closely at those particular items and see if the lines in your ftpaccess apply. I'm not sure if it matters, but be sure to run "/etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart" after making changes (it won't hurt even if it doesn't matter). D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > On Friday 24 August 2001 17:49, you wrote: > > > > I'm making a guess here to some extent. You need to go to > > /etc/xinetd.d/, and edit file wu-ftpd. In that file is a line like: > > server_args = -l -a > > > > I believe you need to try adding a "-I": > > server_args = -l -a -I > > > > Then run: > > /etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart > > > > Give that a try. > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > On Friday 24 August 2001 17:49, you wrote: > > > > I'm making a guess here to some extent. You need to go to > > /etc/xinetd.d/, and edit file wu-ftpd. In that file is a line like: > > server_args = -l -a > > > > I believe you need to try adding a "-I": > > server_args = -l -a -I > > > > Then run: > > /etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart > > > > Give that a try. > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dajo at frii.com Fri Aug 24 13:55:09 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:55:09 -0600 Subject: [lug] Socket Error In-Reply-To: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> (message from David on Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:29:43 -0600) References: <200108231929.f7NJThd01830@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: <200108241955.f7OJt9607460@Rednose.Anthrax> > Error: "Connection refused" (errno 111) occured while > creating a socket and connecting to remote socket. Ok fellows, I was dead wrong! I apologise for creating a red herring. This is not the way to create a stream to access a file (open does that - aaggghh!). The file used in socket communication is just an implementation mechanism. However, I observe that the helpfulness of error messages still hovers around that of those used in 1955. Thanks to all for the help; I did learn a couple of things. dajo From fschmid at archenergy.com Fri Aug 24 14:09:44 2001 From: fschmid at archenergy.com (Ferdinand Schmid) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:09:44 -0600 Subject: [lug] KDAT and other tape backup software References: <003001c12cc1$b1ee9dc0$8a7e8a80@colorado.edu> <20010824105459.A2096@amoeba> Message-ID: <3B86B488.1020505@archenergy.com> FYI - KDat is no longer maintained. Ferdinand rotering at animalcules.com wrote: > On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:24:56AM -0700, Scott T. Kelley wrote: > > >>Any other [tape backup] programs I should check out? >> > > I've used Arkeia's (http://www.arkeia.com) free (beer) backup system > at home for a while now and it's doing a fine job. I like that I can > back up my Windows boxen from a central linux machine. > > I've done several small restores and they've all been fine. > > The only real complaint I have is that the interface is a bit baroque. > > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > -- Ferdinand Schmid http://www.archenergy.com 303-444-4149 x231 From dajo at frii.com Fri Aug 24 14:16:34 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:16:34 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: (wallen@lug.boulder.co.us) References: Message-ID: <200108242016.f7OKGYT07637@Rednose.Anthrax> > Yes ... the way I usually work is with the source editor in one terminal > window; another window where I can type the compile commands, watch the > compiler messages, and do spell checking; and with xdvi running in a third > window if I want a graphical display. This is basically the same is what > you are asking for. ... and is the way I work. Except that I run three copies of xdvi looking at three different places in the document, and have about 25 source files loaded into the editor; only one compile window though 8-) > This may not be possible since a change like this can cause spacing > changes that may need to be propagated through the document. Solving this kind of problem is what gives software engineers job security. That sounds pretty stupid just now doesn't it? However, I do not see that as a particularly hard problem to solve. I would look at it myself except that I have these windows to look at ... dajo From fschmid at archenergy.com Fri Aug 24 14:13:44 2001 From: fschmid at archenergy.com (Ferdinand Schmid) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:13:44 -0600 Subject: [lug] KDAT and other tape backup software References: <003001c12cc1$b1ee9dc0$8a7e8a80@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <3B86B578.6010006@archenergy.com> Scott T. Kelley wrote: > Has anyone out there used KDAT (Red Hat 7.0)? I can write to my tape drive > no prob with tar (/dev/st0) but KDAT won't work. I think I set up the > preferences correctly but no dice. Anything I should watch out for? KDat isn't the most reliable backup system I ever used. But it sure has a nice user interface. Arkeia is free for personal use so if you need a GUI then that is what I would go for. You could also consider CTar. ... And - as mentioned before - KDat is no longer actively maintained. Your e-mail came in with a later time stamp than a response to it. Sorry for the duplication of this comment. Ferdinand -- Ferdinand Schmid http://www.archenergy.com 303-444-4149 x231 From truskell at Mines.EDU Fri Aug 24 14:42:01 2001 From: truskell at Mines.EDU (Todd Ruskell) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:42:01 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print References: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B86BC19.249283AD@Mines.EDU> Thought I'd lend my 2cents to this thread. "D. Stimits" wrote: > "J. Wayde Allen" wrote: > > > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > > > > > I'll probably try some sort of RTF format, > > > > Well ... I've never had much luck with RTF. It is OK, but in many ways my > > feeling is that you'd be better off with pure ASCII or by simply using > > your favorite word processor format. RTF is kind of an intermediate that > > as far as I can tell never really became that well accepted. > > One thing I am frustrated with by plain ascii is lack of color (this > isn't just for resume's, but includes other printing, e.g., syntax > highlighted source code). RTF may have some ability to work with color, > but I suspect you are right about it just leading to frustration. > LaTeX can do color, with the graphics and color packages. You can establish colors using either cmyk or rgb color schemes. I've never tried to print code with color syntax highlighting, but would imagine one might be able to force emacs/xemacs into doing this. It might not be too easy, though. > > > > > > I think LaTeX is too restrictive, and there are no > > > resume formats that I know of. > > > > That doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I can tell LaTeX can do > > anything you want it to do. Actually my feeling is that it is more > > flexible than a word processor. > > I was under the impression that LaTeX macros were there to do something > similar to this: Take content described logically, such as a heading, > title, or paragraph, and format it to conform to a style specification. > Thus, a need for a detailed style specification. It sounds like LaTeX > also has an ability to work more in a free-form way, is this correct? > Can I work without a style specification? > > > > > > Plain TeX would be good, but what I lack is a a WYSIWYG TeX editor > > > (does such a thing even exist?). > > > > It kind of all depends on your definition of WYSIWYG. If you edit > > LaTeX/TeX in one window and run xdvi in another you've basically got a > > WYSIWYG kind of operation. > > I would like to do things like highlight text, then set it to bold or a > color or a specific font size. There is a certain difficulty in viewing > on one window and then searching for the right spot in another window > for editing. LyX is the closest I know of at the moment, and I'm not > very good with it. Btw, I've never seen color in xdvi, does xdvi support > color? Probably I simply haven't run into a color case. > I *think* it does, I can't remember. > > As far as this sort of scheme goes though, I like the way ghostview can > monitor a file and auto-update each time the file is edited. Ghostview > is very nice, it even allows color, and is a nice printing aid. If > ghostview could allow interactive editing, rather than just display, I'd > be incredibly thrilled (cheap thrills?). > > > > > > Better yet, a WYSIWYG dvi editor (this of course would require some > > > sort of related setting to display on given hardware...assuming it > > > really is device independent, WYSIWYG is something of an oxymoron). > > > > Like I've already said the WYSIWYG display for the dvi file would be > > something like xdvi. You don't really edit dvi files. I'm not too > > certain what the dvi file does for us really, but I'm sure that some > > people on the list could fill us in. > > As someone mentioned, there is a need to recompile from TeX to produce > the dvi format; the dvi is the binary form, not useful for human eyes, > but it could be used directly by an editor. Or an interpreter would be > nice, to allow updates to occur simultaneously with edits (this is why > ghostview works so nicely...it has an interpreter and the postscript > itself is not compiled to an intermediate form that would possibly take > multiple passes). Monitoring through xdvi, and editing elsewhere, is a > lot of work when just maintaining and altering a document (one that > might have minor changes on a daily basis). It seems I'm going to have > to learn to do this though. I already have some TeX references, but they > are primarily mathematics references, and don't cover topics like color. My favorite LaTeX book is "A Guide to LaTeX 2e, by Helmut Kopka and Patrick Daly. It was much more accessible than Lamport's book for me, and still provided all the information I needed to modify style files for my dissertation. > > > > > > At this point I'm looking for the ability to create printed documents, > > > not just electronic format. > > > > Fundamentally you are starting to run into what I think is a classic > > problem in document processing. Namely, the realization that there can be > > more than one incarnation of a document (electronic, printed, braille, > > etc.). This is where the word processor and WYSIWYG oriented people start > > to get frustrated. > > Yes, I'm hoping to do some basic editing, and have high quality output > for printing. The document typesetting abilities go beyond what I need, > but the solutions that don't use TeX or PostScript on Linux seem to fall > short in a lot of ways, most often when printing. So the next step up, > to get good printing, is a major leap beyond what I need, and nothing in > between exists. In a way similar to how XML was designed as a simpler > substitute to SGML, while still being convenient in ways of HTML, I wish > there was an intermediate TeX and intermediate PostScript...designed to > actually provide good printing control, but not designed to be a > publishing tool with control to a ten-thousandth of an inch. > > > > > The word processor design (WYSIWYG) is very limited since it makes the > > assumption that you only want what amounts to a computerized > > typewriter. This is a very well accepted idea since people have been > > using pencils, pens, and typewriters for a very long time. It isn't a big > > jump from traditional typewriting in the office to word processing on the > > computer, and you gain the computer's ability to erase, change text, > > incorporate pictures, spell check, etc.. This makes the word processor a > > well understood tool, but it is very limited. > > This is actually not too bad for many of the things I want to do (not > all). I currently need a free form editing device that allows color and > polished look, and then actually prints the same as it looks on the > monitor (to some degree I consider that a "quality" issue). The second > thing I need is a format that I can send electronically, and expect the > other end to also be able to print a reasonable facsimile. HTML fails > because the viewers being used (probably IE or Netscape) are > inconsistent at printing, even when they display the same. It can come > close though in terms of being able to send things to other people and > at least have the display on the monitor look nice, over a variety of > o/s (there are some things that one has to be careful with, but display > gotchas are far fewer than print gotchas). If html tools that are in > general use would actually print the same as they display, I'd be > satisfied with that for now. > My 3-letter suggestion? PDF. PDF itself supports color, and one can simply pdflatex your document. I must confess I don't know if pdflatex fully supports color. It seems that pdf viewers, usually acrobat reader, are as common as browsers. On the linux side, you can use acrobat reader, xpdf, and even ghostview for many files. Once you create the pdf version, it should look the same, displayed and printed. > > > > > Document processing on the other hand, takes a much broader approach to > > the problem. Here, the computer gets to know a little bit about the > > actual content of the document. When you write the document you > > explicitly note that the following text is the document title, that it is > > divided into sections and that under each section are paragraphs, > > etc.. This way the computer can make more informed searches of the > > document content, pull out specified info (what is the title for > > instance), and more reasonably format the document for different types of > > display (CRT, postscript printer, braille reader, text to speech, etc.). > > This is good when writing a book or thesis or other paper that will be > processed by someone who is knowledgable in the area. It doesn't work > very well for general information interchange to the average user. On > the other hand, the means on Linux which work for general interchange > with other o/s's and non-technical users don't print right. Both of them > fail in one area. Skimming ahead, I see some URL's for resume styles, > which might do the job, if I can take a TeX (LaTeX) document generated > from one of these, and come up with a form that I can (a) print locally, > and (b) exports a format other o/s non-technical users can view. > Possibly if there is a problem with the latter exported format not > printing correctly, I could print the document myself and send it in > parallel with email of the electronic format. So far the best solution > that can be used by non-technical users, and also prints the way it > displays, seems to be Word (but then it has the reverse frustration...I > can't seem to produce it on Linux...even app's that have an > import/export ability don't do it correctly and fail...when it doesn't > actually crash or refuse to import, the imported format often loses > quality when trying to print it, it prints what is displayed). > > > > (Chris Riddoch our local linguist could probably expand on this if this > > thread catches on.) > > > > > LaTeX seems to require adopting style sheets, something like a DTD in > > > SGML or XML. > > > > Yes and no. LaTeX I think is older than SGML, and certainly older than > > XML so I'd guess that it was kind of a proof of concept model for > > SGML. Someone can correct me if I've got this wrong. > > > > In any case, I don't think you are slavishly limited to a given style > > sheet. I'm not sure that you even have to specify a document type to have > > a valid LaTeX file. On the other hand, most of us do choose a document > > type that is close to what we want, and then tweak it to fit using over > > ride commands. If that isn't sufficient, remember that LaTeX is nothing > > more than a collection of TeX macros so you can include straight TeX > > in a LaTeX document. > > My main interaction attempts with LaTeX have so far been through LyX, > which probably places more constraints that pure TeX or LaTeX. I really > wish the import menu didn't have everything except ascii text > deactivated (the export menu doesn't even have any entries). I probably > need to give up on LyX and look into actually learning TeX (I wonder if > windows understands any of the TeX output formats without installing > special software?). > pdflatex creates pdf files from latex source. > > > > > I might also add, that the use of style sheets is something that is really > > powerful if you are working on a collaborative document. This simplifies > > the editors job. He/She only needs to create the root document with > > include lines for each of the subsections. The collaborators then work on > > their respective files, and there is no problem with author "A" and author > > "B" text having to be reworked by the editor to get consistency in fonts, > > size, and layout. You can also use something like CVS for revision > > control if you desire. > > So far I haven't collaberated with anyone on my resume :) > > > > > > There are no style sheets for resume format, so LaTeX is somewhat of a > > > poor choice for me, unless it is just some intermediate format. > > > > Not true, there are style sheets for resumes. Let's see, a short search > > on the web nets me the following in a few seconds: > > I've bookmarked these, and will try to use them. I wonder if it is > possible to use them with LyX, does anyone know? > > > > > http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/csuros-miklos/source/resume.cls > > http://www.rpi.edu/Computing/Consulting/Software/LaTeX/Hints/Resume.html > > http://web.mit.edu/answers/latex/ > > http://web.mit.edu/answers/latex/latex_resume.html > > > > Simply using a letter or report style would also work. In my opinion, > > since you are wanting to create multiple file format output, LaTeX > > actually makes a lot of sense. > > What format would you suggest which: (a) is readable by non-technical > windows users (e.g., IE or Word can import it and the imported version > looks like what I see from Linux...PostScript fails here), (b) prints > correctly from default viewing tools of windows (html fails here), and > (c) has at least some application available on Linux which will allow me > to print it correctly (PostScript works if the PostScript output > actually looks like the screen view) without rebooting to windows? It is > a tall order, and I don't think there is a solution that is completely > satisfactory. > I've had very good luck with pdf. > > > > > > Straight TeX, which does not enforce styles, and is simply > > > (well, not really simple) a page description language (somewhat like > > > PostScript), doesn't seem to have any means of composing other than > > > learning the language and hacking at it with a text editor (this is how > > > I create my html resumes, with nedit or vi). > > > > LaTeX is as really just a set of TeX macros. You can't have LaTeX without > > TeX. Yes, composing in LaTeX is much like composing in html. However, I > > don't think comparing TeX to postscript is a particularly good analogy. > > > > > Unfortunately, I'm not enough of a whiz with TeX or PS to write a > > > WYSIWYG editor (it'd be awesome if ghostview was interactive and could > > > be used to compose as well as view). > > > > You have to remember, with a document processing system the concept of > > "What You See is What You Get" is kind of vague. Do you mean WYSIWYG as an > > html document, or on a CRT, or on a braille reader, or in a text to voice > > converter, or ...? If that is what you are looking for, then you really > > want a word processor (MSWord, WordPerfect, StarOffice, ApplixWord, etc.). > > LyX is kind of what you are asking for, but it isn't strictly WYSIWYG. > > The term they use is "What You See is What You Mean" (WYSIWYM). This is > > more in line with the underlying philosophy of the document processing > > system as opposed to the word processor. > > I probably do want a word processor. I have Applix, but it no longer > works with RH 7.1, even with every compat library there is (my Applix > version is ready for the trash can). Applix and StarOffice can't be > exchanged with windows users; even when they claim to export or import > word, they don't do it correctly, and every export needs a reboot to win > to see if it exported properly. I guess I need to run vmware (which > fails on my SMP motherboards) and windows, printing and document > exchange formats just don't mix, and it seems they must be done on a > single application; none of the Linux apps do the job completely. > > > > > Finally, I guess I argue that you don't want a WYSIWYG interface for these > > programs. What you see now with the use of word processors are people > > putting a significant amount of effort into how the document looks. What > > font type, what type size, should it be one or two column, does the > > picture look right here or should it be moved a bit to the left or right, > > etc.. What tends to get forgotten if the value of the actual > > content. One of the claims that the LaTeX system makes, and I have to > > agree with it, is that you don't have to worry about what the document > > looks like. It will be formated according to your style file, if you use > > one, and will therefore be consistent and follow correct, time honored > > typesetting rules. You only have to create good, solid, real content - > > very cool! For once, you actually get substance rather than form. > > Any "polished" business paper (versus technical documents) requires > attention to appearance. I need a polished look in both printed form and > electronic form, with the expectation that if I send an electronic > format, it might be printed. There are many people that make a decision > to drop further consideration of a document the moment it looks sloppy, > has spelling errors, so on...they don't have time to deal with > frustrations of fixing someone else's carelessness, and I have no > influence whatsoever on changing their way of thinking (nor do I have > the power to ignore these people). > Agreed. This is the power of style files. They guarantee that all your section headings look the same. They format your table of contents, your indices, and bibliographies correctly, and keep track of all the reference numbers. You think about these things once in a document, and then you're done. If you don't care for the default behaviour, it usually isn't too hard to tweak it a bit. However, it does take some time, and a reference book you get along with, to learn what look for and change. > > If windows and standard applications of all the platforms and users that > I must communicate with all understood TeX, and had the ability to both > view and print it, I'd snap it up in an instant and become a guru in the > field. The strengths that are mentioned above about the ability to > create a consistent format and enforce a style are good for professional > documentation and academic publishing...but within the area of casual > exchange among unskilled computer users it breaks down, and becomes a > road block. I suspect that if someone at MS suggested creating TeX > import and export abilities in Word, they'd be fired. > > I'm overly pessimistic in this area because it has been a major > frustration that I can't do anything about. I'm tied by what is > available to the common windows user, and by what I can print from > linux. Even if I can ignore windows users, I can't seem to get easier > word processing documents to print right, so I'm forced to learn TeX or > PostScript and write code to print a nice document...I can no longer > just do simple edits and be done, I have to manually rewrite raw > document tags. And in the end, when I find what I need, I still need to > reboot to win just to put in a new ink cartridge and align the ink jet > printer, so I still can't avoid win. Major frustration. > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > > > > - Wayde > > (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug -- Todd Ruskell, Ph.D. Lecturer in Physics Colorado School of Mines Golden, CO 80401 303-384-2080 Fax: 303-273-3919 From krisapplegate at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 15:02:33 2001 From: krisapplegate at yahoo.com (Kristopher Applegate) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lug] TAR Archiving Message-ID: <20010824210233.57734.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> I am looking for a way to tar an entire directory structure of about 20GB into a series of <=2GB files. The box is a RedHat 7.1 box and I am transferring the archives to a older NAS unit based off of an old Linux that has the 2GB ext2 file size limit. I read the man for tar and found it was lacking what I needed. I was planning on using tar but if you guys have any better suggestions, I am not opposed to that. I would also prefer not to have to split the archive post-compress and tie up a large amount of disk space in the process. Any help would be appreciated. -Kristopher Applegate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Fri Aug 24 15:04:44 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > One thing I am frustrated with by plain ascii is lack of color (this > isn't just for resume's, but includes other printing, e.g., syntax > highlighted source code). RTF may have some ability to work with color, > but I suspect you are right about it just leading to frustration. Yes, I think that RTF does allow for color specification. I'm not too sure, but I think the new ISO 8859-1 may also allow for color? > I was under the impression that LaTeX macros were there to do something > similar to this: Take content described logically, such as a heading, > title, or paragraph, and format it to conform to a style specification. > Thus, a need for a detailed style specification. Yes kind of, but you don't have to use all of the macros, and most of them can be overridden, or modified. It also is a kind of programming language that allows you to do conditional branching in the document, and to define new features in the document source itself. Also since it is built on top of TeX you can drop down to the lower level TeX programming if you feel you need that degree of control. Few people ever need to do that. Most people take an existing document class and then tweak that to their needs by overriding certain built-ins and redefining a few things. That usually isn't hard, and once you've done it for a particular type of document you don't need to reinvent the wheel for he next document. > It sounds like LaTeX also has an ability to work more in a free-form > way, is this correct? Can I work without a style specification? You can work in a fairly free-form way, and I was thinking you could get away without a document type declaration. However, the proof is in the pudding, so I tried it. There were a number of errors generated when I left out the document type. The most critical being that the default font was not defined. That resulted in an empty document. So, I did my usual and used the article document type to create the following "minimal" LaTeX document: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{color} \definecolor{red}{rgb}{1,0,0} \begin{document} This is a test to see how little one can get away with when it comes to working with \LaTeX. OK, this seems to be working. How about some \textcolor{red}{red text}? Maybe we should create a second paragraph just for grins. That way you can see how that is done. Mostly you just type what you want to say, and put in commands, as needed. Much like you would do in html. You can for example give your text \emph{emphasis}, or you can make it \large{big} or \bfseries{\large{big and bold}}. \end{document} > I would like to do things like highlight text, then set it to bold or a > color or a specific font size. OK, I've demo'd that in the mini-document above. Save it to a file and run the following commands: latex whateveryoucalledthefile dvips -o junk.ps whateveryoucalledthefile.dvi you can then look at the postscript results using ghostview. > There is a certain difficulty in viewing > on one window and then searching for the right spot in another window > for editing. Fair enough, that is true. I've just gotten use to it so it really doesn't bother me. Mostly I just read the LaTeX file, I really only use xdvi if I'm tweaking a document override and want to see the effect. In practice you really don't need to "see" what things look like here since you are working based more on content than layout. > LyX is the closest I know of at the moment, and I'm not very good with > it. That is my take on it as well. > Btw, I've never seen color in xdvi, does xdvi support color? Probably > I simply haven't run into a color case. Well, it indicates that it does, but it didn't display the red text in my example. I got a message saying something about checking color maps. That is why I converted to postscript and viewed it in ghostview. > As far as this sort of scheme goes though, I like the way ghostview can > monitor a file and auto-update each time the file is edited. Ghostview > is very nice, it even allows color, and is a nice printing aid. Yes, works basically the same as xdvi in that regard. The advantage of xdvi is that you don't have to convert to postscript between edits. > If ghostview could allow interactive editing, rather than just > display, I'd be incredibly thrilled (cheap thrills?). I think that there are some subtleties here that we are probably missing. The only postscript editing program I know of is Xcircuit. It seems to read and write postscript directly. My guess as to why editors don't read and write postscript directly has to do with at least one of two possibilities. One is that the postscript file format may not exactly be in the public domain, and there may be some licensing issues. Another issue has to do with postscript being primarily a printer control language. Using higher level representations such as dvi probably makes for a more efficient symbolic representation of the document that can be more easily converted to various formats. > > > Better yet, a WYSIWYG dvi editor (this of course would require some > > > sort of related setting to display on given hardware...assuming it > > > really is device independent, WYSIWYG is something of an oxymoron). OK > As someone mentioned, there is a need to recompile from TeX to produce > the dvi format; the dvi is the binary form, not useful for human eyes, > but it could be used directly by an editor. Or an interpreter would be > nice, to allow updates to occur simultaneously with edits (this is why > ghostview works so nicely...it has an interpreter and the postscript > itself is not compiled to an intermediate form that would possibly take > multiple passes). That an editor "could" work directly on dvi files is certainly true. What isn't so clear to me is what this gains you? In a sense, what you are asking for is nothing more than a word processor that works on dvi files. If that is all you need then by all means use a word processor. I'm not a big LyX fan, but at least what they are doing seems to make some sense. Also, right now LaTeX is a multi-path compiler. If you have a bibliography for instance, you have to run bibtex, latex, latex in order for the system to locate all the citations, build the bibliography from the citation database (another very cool feature), and then go back number the citations and references accordingly. Making a real-time interpreted version of this would probably mean a code re-write. There are some newer document processing systems that may be working in this direction, but I don't know anything about them. > Monitoring through xdvi, and editing elsewhere, is a lot of work when > just maintaining and altering a document (one that might have minor > changes on a daily basis). This is where you are thinking like a word processor user though. There really isn't much of a reason to monitor the document through xdvi. I only do this as a sanity check if I'm tweaking the formating commands and want to see how it would print. If you are talking about working on the document and making minor changes this is really no different than typing e-mail. > It seems I'm going to have to learn to do this though. It really isn't as hard as it seems. Actually, my experience is that the guys hung up on the word processor have many more problems. > I already have some TeX references, but they are primarily mathematics > references, and don't cover topics like color. That is because LaTeX/TeX is the tried and true way to get good equations. This is the Achilles heel of the standard word processor. Creating equations in a word processor is a pain, and there is essentially no compatibility between any of them on this front. You can always share StarOffice, WordPerfect, ApplixWord, and MSword files if they are basic plain text, but if you have equations you just found yourself in document conversion hell. Color is part of the LaTeX graphics package. > Yes, I'm hoping to do some basic editing, and have high quality output > for printing. The document typesetting abilities go beyond what I need, > but the solutions that don't use TeX or PostScript on Linux seem to fall > short in a lot of ways, most often when printing. Doesn't matter what platform. > So the next step up, to get good printing, is a major leap beyond what > I need, and nothing in between exists. It may not be as big of a jump as you think. It does mean you have to get away from the simulated typewriter paradigm though. You've already kind of done that with html. > In a way similar to how XML was designed as a simpler substitute to > SGML, while still being convenient in ways of HTML, I wish there was > an intermediate TeX and intermediate PostScript...designed to actually > provide good printing control, but not designed to be a publishing > tool with control to a ten-thousandth of an inch. That middle ground tool is called - LaTeX. > This is actually not too bad for many of the things I want to do (not > all). I currently need a free form editing device that allows color and > polished look, and then actually prints the same as it looks on the > monitor (to some degree I consider that a "quality" issue). The second > thing I need is a format that I can send electronically, and expect the > other end to also be able to print a reasonable facsimile. Yes, and it is partly why the computerized typewriter model is still so well entrenched. But contrary to the typewriterized philosophy it isn't the only way ... > HTML fails because the viewers being used (probably IE or Netscape) > are inconsistent at printing, even when they display the same. It can > come close though in terms of being able to send things to other > people and at least have the display on the monitor look nice, over a > variety of o/s (there are some things that one has to be careful with, > but display gotchas are far fewer than print gotchas). If html tools > that are in general use would actually print the same as they display, > I'd be satisfied with that for now. That is a different topic in and of itself. HTML originally started with many of the same concepts as the document processing systems. However the typewriter/word processor folks didn't like that they didn't really need to worry about style so much. After all, who needs content if it looks pretty . Mix into that the battle between Netscape and Microsoft, and well ... you know the story. > This is good when writing a book or thesis or other paper that will be > processed by someone who is knowledgeable in the area. In almost all cases this is a good thing. Especially these days, when so few people have ever studied typography. > It doesn't work very well for general information interchange to the > average user. I don't see why this is a problem? > On the other hand, the means on Linux which work for general > interchange with other o/s's and non-technical users don't print > right. This doesn't work right on any platform, it isn't limited to Linux. > My main interaction attempts with LaTeX have so far been through LyX, > which probably places more constraints that pure TeX or LaTeX. I don't have enough experience with LyX to help there. > I probably need to give up on LyX and look into actually learning TeX > (I wonder if windows understands any of the TeX output formats without > installing special software?). The crux of your troubles has to do with standards. HTML is fairly standard as long as you stick to strict HTML. Postscript is pretty standard, but you can get font substitution that can cause troubles, and you have to convince what you've called "non-technical people" to print this without using a word processor. The format that seems to work about the best is the pdf file. It does mean you need to have the reader software installed, but it is pretty ubiquitous these days. Finally, when push comes to shove, the good old paper copy is always pretty darn acceptable, and you don't even need a computer to read it! > What format would you suggest which: (a) is readable by non-technical > windows users (e.g., IE or Word can import it and the imported version > looks like what I see from Linux...PostScript fails here), (b) prints > correctly from default viewing tools of windows (html fails here), and > (c) has at least some application available on Linux which will allow me > to print it correctly (PostScript works if the PostScript output > actually looks like the screen view) without rebooting to windows? It is > a tall order, and I don't think there is a solution that is completely > satisfactory. The "best" solution I can think of is pdf. > Applix and StarOffice can't be exchanged with windows users; even when > they claim to export or import word, they don't do it correctly, and > every export needs a reboot to win to see if it exported properly. I've not had such extreme problems. It is an issue though. This is why I always prefer working with plain ASCII text. Never had a compatibility issue there. > Any "polished" business paper (versus technical documents) requires > attention to appearance. I need a polished look in both printed form and > electronic form, with the expectation that if I send an electronic > format, it might be printed. There are many people that make a decision > to drop further consideration of a document the moment it looks sloppy, > has spelling errors, so on...they don't have time to deal with > frustrations of fixing someone else's carelessness, and I have no > influence whatsoever on changing their way of thinking (nor do I have > the power to ignore these people). This is true, and is where most people would be better off leaving the typography to the typographers. This is where LaTeX shines since you get a professional typographer doing the layout for you. One thing that you can see in a lot of so-called polished business documents these days is poor if not wrong typography, and LOTS of inconsistencies. By the way, technical papers also have to be specially formated with careful attention to look. I've got the ITS publications manual right here on the desk next to my computer. > If windows and standard applications of all the platforms and users that > I must communicate with all understood TeX, and had the ability to both > view and print it, I'd snap it up in an instant and become a guru in the > field. The strengths that are mentioned above about the ability to > create a consistent format and enforce a style are good for professional > documentation and academic publishing...but within the area of casual > exchange among unskilled computer users it breaks down, and becomes a > road block. I suspect that if someone at MS suggested creating TeX > import and export abilities in Word, they'd be fired. I think you are looking at this from a slightly skewed point of view. I believe you can create documents that can be viewed on any platform using the tool of your choice. If that be with a word processor, then by all means do so. > I'm overly pessimistic in this area because it has been a major > frustration that I can't do anything about. I'm tied by what is > available to the common windows user, and by what I can print from > linux. Even if I can ignore windows users, I can't seem to get easier > word processing documents to print right, so I'm forced to learn TeX or > PostScript and write code to print a nice document... Yes, well I'm pretty frustrated here too. That is why I've taken the time to type this long message. I'm not so frustrated with the tools. There are some really useful and powerful tools. What frustrates me is the narrow mindedness and blatant disregard for what a little bit of standardization in the Windows world could do for computing in general. That you are having problems getting your word processor to print correctly sounds a bit fishy. I've never seen that problem. The only consolation I can think of is that you are not alone. This is a major problem in every organization I know of, and it doesn't go away even if everyone runs Windows and MSWord. - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From dajo at frii.com Fri Aug 24 15:43:18 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:43:18 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: (wallen@lug.boulder.co.us) References: Message-ID: <200108242143.f7OLhIa08280@Rednose.Anthrax> > Well, it indicates that it does, but it didn't display the red text in my > example. I got a message saying something about checking color > maps. That is why I converted to postscript and viewed it in ghostview. I got colour using xdvi. It was great, I have not seen that before. > This is where you are thinking like a word processor user though. There > really isn't much of a reason to monitor the document through xdvi. I ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this is just not true some of the time dajo From rotering at animalcules.com Fri Aug 24 16:02:26 2001 From: rotering at animalcules.com (rotering at animalcules.com) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:02:26 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com>; from stimits@idcomm.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:05:05PM -0600 References: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010824160226.A2649@amoeba> On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:05:05PM -0600, D. Stimits wrote: > What format would you suggest which: (a) is readable by non-technical > windows users (e.g., IE or Word can import it and the imported version > looks like what I see from Linux...PostScript fails here), (b) prints > correctly from default viewing tools of windows (html fails here), and > (c) has at least some application available on Linux which will allow me > to print it correctly (PostScript works if the PostScript output > actually looks like the screen view) without rebooting to windows? It is > a tall order, and I don't think there is a solution that is completely > satisfactory. LaTeX -> DVI (latex) DVI -> PostScript (dvips) PS -> PDF (ps2pdf - comes with ghostscript 5.50 (and possibly earlier versions)) One drawback of this production cycle is that ghostscript font rendering leaves something to be desired. This means that the PDF file produced looks a bit shabby under Windows, but it prints perfectly well. > One thing I am frustrated with by plain ascii is lack of color (this > isn't just for resume's, but includes other printing, e.g., syntax > highlighted source code). LaTeX does color. Oddly enough, xdvi doesn't (on my machine). But the dvips-produced PostScript looks just fine on the screen (and on the paper). Here's a short LaTeX color demo ripped out of _A Guide to LaTeX_ by Kopka & Daly: \documentclass[12pt,letterpaper]{article} \usepackage[dvips]{color} \usepackage{multicol} \pagestyle{empty} \setlength{\oddsidemargin}{0pt} \setlength{\textwidth}{16cm} \setlength{\textheight}{22cm} \setlength{\parindent}{0pt} \setlength{\parskip}{0pt} \begin{document} \renewcommand*{\DefineNamedColor}[4]{% \textcolor[named]{#2}{\rule{7mm}{7mm}}\quad \texttt{#2}\strut\\} \begin{center}\Large Named colors in \texttt{dvipsnam.def} \end{center} \begin{multicols}{3} \input{dvipsnam.def} \end{multicols} \end{document} > It sounds like LaTeX also has an ability to work more in a free-form > way, is this correct? Can I work without a style specification? You must specify a documentclass. But, like any other extremely flexible tool, you are free to completely ignore the specs of the class and do whatever goofy things you like. LaTeX was designed, though, to relieve you of as much of the problems of layout as possible, leaving you free to think about (*gasp*) content. This has been mentioned in this thread previously but it bears repeated mention. [Long rant about how the great unwashed have been convinced that it's cool, nay, *necessary*, to festoon their correspondence with multiple fonts, colors, and dingbats retroactively deleted.] I will grant you that a r\'esum\'e is somewhat of a special case, requiring a more specialized layout than your average document. [BTW, note the ease with which diacritical marks are added mid-stream. This is in direct contrast to most word processors which require you to leave the keyboard and head for the mouse. One of the many advantages of a WYSIWYM publishing system.] I've been doing mine with LaTeX for the past five years or so. I sat down for a few hours and hammered out some custom macros (three, to be exact) and I haven't done anyting but change the content ever since. > Btw, I've never seen color in xdvi, does xdvi support color? You can set foreground and background colors, but, as above, I can't get it to display color any other way. > Monitoring through xdvi, and editing elsewhere, is a lot of work > when just maintaining and altering a document (one that might have > minor changes on a daily basis). [This rant just keeps trying to resurface! :-)] What is it that makes people want to see things as they will be rendered while the content is being created? Is it the fact that people are used to managers who will happily sign off on a report that says nothing but "I like to eat feces! Feces is (are?) yummy!" over and over again as long as it's got lots of funky fonts and other geegaws? If you are not a professional typesetter/illustrator/editor, fonts and paragraph widths need never be above your conscious horizon. It amazes me that people will willingly (happily!) burden themselves with this stuff. > It seems I'm going to have to learn to do this though. I already > have some TeX references, but they are primarily mathematics > references, and don't cover topics like color. The book mentioned above (ISBN0-201-39825-7) has a brief discussion of color. The dvips package documentation might also have information on using color. Please don't let the LaTeX snippet above scare you about using color. It's as easy as the following: %---------------------------------------------------- \documentclass[12pt,letterpaper]{article} \usepackage{color} \begin{document} {\color{blue} This sentence is blue.} This one is not. \end{document} %---------------------------------------------------- > I wish there was an intermediate TeX and intermediate > PostScript...designed to actually provide good printing control, but > not designed to be a publishing tool with control to a > ten-thousandth of an inch. Just because that power is there does not compel you to use it. It is easy to construct a template once and then merely fill it in each time you want to use it. Heck, the default document classes are probably sufficient for the vast majority of regular people's DTP requirements. > I can't seem to get easier word processing documents to print right, > so I'm forced to learn TeX or PostScript and write code to print a > nice document...I can no longer just do simple edits and be done, I > have to manually rewrite raw document tags. I think the idea of "To use (La)TeX I have to write code to print a nice document" is a myth. The truth is that in order to do any formatting, font changing, etc. in a WYSIWYG editor you must effectifely "Write code". Either you must use some special keystrokes or activate a menu (which is even worse because now you must remove a hand from the keyboard to fiddle with a mouse). This is no more or less difficult that typing a few symbols in mid stream. How easy is it to use diacritical marks (e.g. r\'esum\'e) in Word, or StarOffice? IMHO people have been bamboozled into thinking that using a mouse is more efficient that using tags, etc. Even the phrase "raw document tags" implies some kind of bleeding edge, \"ubercomplicated process when, in reality, it's just as easy (or even {\em easier}) than using a menu. I apologize for being unable to contain myself. From rotering at animalcules.com Fri Aug 24 16:09:58 2001 From: rotering at animalcules.com (rotering at animalcules.com) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:09:58 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B86BC19.249283AD@Mines.EDU>; from truskell@Mines.EDU on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:42:01PM -0600 References: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com> <3B86BC19.249283AD@Mines.EDU> Message-ID: <20010824160958.B2649@amoeba> On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:42:01PM -0600, Todd Ruskell wrote: > My 3-letter suggestion? PDF. PDF itself supports color, and one can simply > pdflatex your document. Ah. Thank you for this. Not only is it much simpler than the tex->dvi dvi->ps ps->pdf process I mentioned, but it produces much nicer output as well. From feenix at ticnet.com Fri Aug 24 14:16:55 2001 From: feenix at ticnet.com (Taz) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:16:55 -0400 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing References: <000201c12be0$844927a0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> Message-ID: <3B86B637.29BB6674@ticnet.com> What do you mean @home may go under? Their cable or DSL service? I have their cable service and have been very happy. Do you know something? Please share. Jeff Prescott Oelke wrote: > It looks like @home may soon be joining Rythms and the long list of DSL > providers in going under. I hope AT&T isn't just going to let it's > subscribers lose service but you never know. What really stinks though > is if they go under I can't get DSL so it's back to dial-up for me. Gee, > I love this modern world we live in. > > Prescott Oelke > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] > On Behalf Of ljp > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:04 AM > To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > Subject: Re: [lug] Rhythms is closing > > At 18:54 8/20/2001 -0600, you wrote: > >Hi, > > I was wondering if any of you know of a good reliable dsl provider > in > >the Lafayette,CO area? My current dsl provider Rhythms is closing it's > >services next month and I'm in search of a replacement. As long as I > can get > >a static ip and the provider is Linux friendly that will do. ADSL is > also > >preferred since I have an ADSL hookup already set up. > >Best Wishes, > > > >Manny Roque > > Check http://www.peakpeak.com > very linux friendly, as I believe one or more of their support or other > workers is on this list. > Very reliable. Only two short down times since last November, neither of > > which I believe was their fault. (QWorst) > > ljp > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From sanders at MontanaLinux.Org Fri Aug 24 16:24:49 2001 From: sanders at MontanaLinux.Org (Warren Sanders) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <3B86B637.29BB6674@ticnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Taz wrote: > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:16:55 -0400 > From: Taz > Reply-To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > Subject: Re: [lug] Rhythms is closing > > What do you mean @home may go under? Their cable or DSL service? I have > their cable service and have been very happy. Do you know something? > Please share. > > Jeff > > Prescott Oelke wrote: > > > It looks like @home may soon be joining Rythms and the long list of DSL > > providers in going under. I hope AT&T isn't just going to let it's > > subscribers lose service but you never know. What really stinks though > > is if they go under I can't get DSL so it's back to dial-up for me. Gee, > > I love this modern world we live in. > > > > Prescott Oelke > > > We posted a link to some of this info: http://www.montanalinux.org/article.php?sid=307&mode=nested&order=0&thold=-1 I'm a bit worried too :| -- Warren Sanders http://MontanaLinux.Org From James_Harris at maxtor.com Fri Aug 24 16:38:30 2001 From: James_Harris at maxtor.com (Harris, James) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:38:30 -0600 Subject: [lug] sendmail Message-ID: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD782@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> What is your intent? -----Original Message----- From: Todd [mailto:lasten at korinth.com] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 17:33 To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: [lug] sendmail Anyone know how to configure sendmail to accept all email for host.domain.com regardless of address and send it into /dev/null? Thanks for any help, Todd _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Fri Aug 24 16:51:59 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:51:59 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <200108242143.f7OLhIa08280@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, David wrote: > > There really isn't much of a reason to monitor the document through > > xdvi. I > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this is just not true some of the time And I agree with the "some of the time" qualifier. - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From wallen at lug.boulder.co.us Fri Aug 24 17:09:01 2001 From: wallen at lug.boulder.co.us (J. Wayde Allen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <20010824160226.A2649@amoeba> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 rotering at animalcules.com wrote: > One drawback of this production cycle is that ghostscript font > rendering leaves something to be desired. This means that the PDF > file produced looks a bit shabby under Windows, but it prints > perfectly well. I was dealing with this a while back. The thread on this can be found in the archives starting at http://archive.lug.boulder.co.us/bymonth/2001.05/msg00320.html I summarized my solution at http://archive.lug.boulder.co.us/bymonth/2001.05/msg00334.html - Wayde (wallen at lug.boulder.co.us) From cmorrison at frii.com Fri Aug 24 14:14:41 2001 From: cmorrison at frii.com (Chuck Morrison) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] wu-ftpd settings problem - xinetd settings ? In-Reply-To: <3B86A926.40F01D38@idcomm.com> Message-ID: OK, I found the solution on the web. Apparently I had to remove all references to USERID in the /etc/xinetd.d/wu-ftpd file. It appears to make no difference if the -I is in there or not. Oddly, this appears to be a RH7.x issue only. Many thanks for the help. Chuck Morrison cmorrison at greeleynet.com On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, D. Stimits wrote: > Chuck Morrison wrote: > > > > I tried it, but it didn't appear to change anything. I've been trying to find > > out what the -a does. Don't know if it might be auth or not. > > That means it looks at /etc/ftpaccess file. It could, since ftpaccess > can be configured to allow or deny some ftp connections (such as > anonymous). There *might* be an auth style entry in that file, but the > way I know of to tell wu-ftpd to require auth is through the -I option. > You could look closely at "man ftpaccess", but I have not dissected it > in detail...there is a note on RFC931 configuration and other timeouts, > you might look closely at those particular items and see if the lines in > your ftpaccess apply. I'm not sure if it matters, but be sure to run > "/etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart" after making changes (it won't hurt > even if it doesn't matter). > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > > On Friday 24 August 2001 17:49, you wrote: > > > > > > I'm making a guess here to some extent. You need to go to > > > /etc/xinetd.d/, and edit file wu-ftpd. In that file is a line like: > > > server_args = -l -a > > > > > > I believe you need to try adding a "-I": > > > server_args = -l -a -I > > > > > > Then run: > > > /etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart > > > > > > Give that a try. > > > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > > > > > On Friday 24 August 2001 17:49, you wrote: > > > > > > I'm making a guess here to some extent. You need to go to > > > /etc/xinetd.d/, and edit file wu-ftpd. In that file is a line like: > > > server_args = -l -a > > > > > > I believe you need to try adding a "-I": > > > server_args = -l -a -I > > > > > > Then run: > > > /etc/rc.d/init.d/xinetd restart > > > > > > Give that a try. > > > > > > D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > From gsexton at mhsoftware.com Fri Aug 24 17:20:59 2001 From: gsexton at mhsoftware.com (Sexton, George) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:20:59 -0600 Subject: [lug] sendmail In-Reply-To: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD782@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> Message-ID: Well, the short answer is: 1) Add an entry to your virtusertable file @host.domain.com nullaccount 2) Add an entry to /etc/aliases nullaccount: /dev/null Anyone know how to configure sendmail to accept all email for host.domain.com regardless of address and send it into /dev/null? Thanks for any help, Todd _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dradom at redback.com Fri Aug 24 17:24:16 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:24:16 -0600 Subject: [lug] sendmail In-Reply-To: References: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD782@mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> Message-ID: <20010824172416.A895@saturn> you'll need to run newaliases and makemap hash virtusertable < virtusertable too...or restart sendmail * Sexton, George (gsexton at mhsoftware.com) wrote: > Well, the short answer is: > > 1) Add an entry to your virtusertable file > > @host.domain.com nullaccount > > 2) Add an entry to /etc/aliases > > nullaccount: /dev/null > > > > Anyone know how to configure sendmail to accept all email for > host.domain.com > regardless of address and send it into /dev/null? > > Thanks for any help, > Todd > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From feenix at ticnet.com Fri Aug 24 16:04:19 2001 From: feenix at ticnet.com (Taz) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:04:19 -0400 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! References: <000001c12b20$7034f070$6c4f0341@c1566405a> Message-ID: <3B86CF63.E570BFA6@ticnet.com> What's the advantage of going with a journaling file system such as ext3 or reiserfs? Jeff Prescott Oelke wrote: > The new beta of Mandrake 8.1 has several options for a journaling file > system. Reiserfs, ext3 and at least one other whose name escapes me at > the moment. > > Prescott Oelke > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] > On Behalf Of ljp > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 4:49 AM > To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > Subject: Re: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! > > At 20:07 8/21/2001 -0600, you wrote: > >For those who are interested in the latest release of Red Hat's > "Roswell" > >(7.2 beta), I'm getting 450 KBps from mirror.pa.msu.edu. > > > >Ya know, I could really get used to journalling filesystems (yes, I > know > >SuSE has had Reiserfs for some time). > > I've been using SuSE 7 with reiserfs for some months on one of my linux > boxes. I won't install any dist that DOESN'T have reiserfs are an > install > option anymore. I haven't tried ext3, but would be interesting to read > any > info on comparisons. > Mandrake 8 also has a reiserfs install. > > ljp > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From jbs at quiotix.com Fri Aug 24 19:05:17 2001 From: jbs at quiotix.com (Jeffrey Siegal) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:05:17 -0700 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing References: <000201c12be0$844927a0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B86B637.29BB6674@ticnet.com> Message-ID: <3B86F9CD.160FEBA9@quiotix.com> Taz wrote: > What do you mean @home may go under? Their cable or DSL service? I have > their cable service and have been very happy. Do you know something? > Please share. The service itself is doing very well but the company is doing very poorly. In fact, many in the industry have been surprised at how cable modems have been beating DSL. The service will probably continue to be offered (no guarantees though) but maybe by a different vendor (some speculate that AT&T may take over, as AT&T already owns a large share of @Home stock). From plkey at home.com Fri Aug 24 19:28:10 2001 From: plkey at home.com (Prescott Oelke) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:28:10 -0600 Subject: [lug] Rhythms is closing In-Reply-To: <3B86F9CD.160FEBA9@quiotix.com> Message-ID: <000001c12d05$338fe800$6c4f0341@c1566405a> AT&T doesn't want them from what some people are saying. But @home is stumbling. In any event I would think it highly unlikely that AT&T would just let them pull the plug on it's broadband customers. There is talk of @home selling pieces of it's network to other providers (Roadrunner and MediaOne are the only two I know of in the cable business). At any rate nothing is for certain yet. Excite at Home just did a reverse stock split to stay listed on the Nasdaq, so they're still hanging in there. I just can't see how, with so many users, they could still be hurting like this. I mean, my rates just got raised a few months back. Prescott Oelke -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Siegal Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 7:05 PM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] Rhythms is closing Taz wrote: > What do you mean @home may go under? Their cable or DSL service? I have > their cable service and have been very happy. Do you know something? > Please share. The service itself is doing very well but the company is doing very poorly. In fact, many in the industry have been surprised at how cable modems have been beating DSL. The service will probably continue to be offered (no guarantees though) but maybe by a different vendor (some speculate that AT&T may take over, as AT&T already owns a large share of @Home stock). From caldodge at fpcc.net Fri Aug 24 19:53:22 2001 From: caldodge at fpcc.net (Calvin Dodge) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:53:22 -0600 Subject: [lug] get yer red hot Roswell 2nd Edition! References: <000001c12b20$7034f070$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B86CF63.E570BFA6@ticnet.com> Message-ID: <3B870512.25870EA4@fpcc.net> Taz wrote: > > What's the advantage of going with a journaling file system such as ext3 > or reiserfs? The biggest advantage is a more reliable filesystem - especially in the case of an unexpected lockup or reboot. Typically a filesystem check on a journalled filesystem takes a second or two, rather than minutes (or LOTS of minutes if you have a big hard drive) for an unjournalled system. In addition, reiserfs is more efficient at searching directories with LOTS of filenames (though - in theory - that will eventually be available for ext2 (and therefore ext3). Calvin -- Calvin Dodge Certified Linux Bigot (tm) http://www.caldodge.fpcc.net From caldodge at fpcc.net Fri Aug 24 19:58:06 2001 From: caldodge at fpcc.net (Calvin Dodge) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:58:06 -0600 Subject: [lug] TAR Archiving References: <20010824210233.57734.qmail@web20302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B87062E.43594830@fpcc.net> Kristopher Applegate wrote: > > I am looking for a way to tar an entire directory > structure of about 20GB into a series of <=2GB files. > The box is a RedHat 7.1 box and I am transferring the > archives to a older NAS unit based off of an old Linux > that has the 2GB ext2 file size limit. I read the man > for tar and found it was lacking what I needed. I was > planning on using tar but if you guys have any better > suggestions, I am not opposed to that. I would also > prefer not to have to split the archive post-compress > and tie up a large amount of disk space in the > process. Any help would be appreciated. So you want to split it into smaller chunks, but you don't want to split it? I think I'm misunderstanding something here. You can feed the output of tar into split, and that way you won't use any more disk space than the full 20 gigs would take up. Does that work for you? Calvin -- Calvin Dodge Certified Linux Bigot (tm) http://www.caldodge.fpcc.net From jstarkey at advancecreations.com Fri Aug 24 20:01:46 2001 From: jstarkey at advancecreations.com (John Starkey) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:01:46 -0600 Subject: [lug] More ReiserFS -- hangs on umount?? In-Reply-To: <3B870512.25870EA4@fpcc.net>; from caldodge@fpcc.net on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 07:53:22PM -0600 References: <000001c12b20$7034f070$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B86CF63.E570BFA6@ticnet.com> <3B870512.25870EA4@fpcc.net> Message-ID: <20010824200146.J1210@advancecreations.com> I just converted 30 gigs on two machines to ReiserFS a few days ago. When I reboot it hangs when unmounting. I let it hang for 6 hours while I was AFK just to see if it would work itself out, but didn't. Has anyone experienced this? Any idea what might be causing it? Thanks, John -- John Starkey ColoradoParks.net Advance Creations From feenix at ticnet.com Fri Aug 24 19:12:45 2001 From: feenix at ticnet.com (Taz) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:12:45 -0400 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools Message-ID: <3B86FB8D.D1D1B27@ticnet.com> Another M$ technique?!?!? Go DOJ!!! http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BFE0E71ED%2D96F6%2D4109%2DA172%2D5A23D5072DEE%7D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From majolley at earthlink.net Fri Aug 24 21:14:49 2001 From: majolley at earthlink.net (Mark (Andy) Jolley) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:14:49 -0600 Subject: [lug] VPN through IPChains and MASQ Message-ID: <004501c12d14$1a61d6e0$1400a8c0@jolleynet.net> Our office is finally getting up to speed with last century and setting up VPN. I currently have Sprint broadband, and have a Red Hat 7.0 box as a firewall with IPChains and MASQ setup. I was wondering if anyone has made this kind of environment work. My concern is that the protocol types 50 and 51 are choking on the MASQ. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Or am I just hosed? Thanks Andy Jolley ---I'd like to have something witty to say here, but frankly I'm not that bright From dradom at redback.com Fri Aug 24 21:21:18 2001 From: dradom at redback.com (dan radom) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:21:18 -0600 Subject: [lug] VPN through IPChains and MASQ In-Reply-To: <004501c12d14$1a61d6e0$1400a8c0@jolleynet.net> References: <004501c12d14$1a61d6e0$1400a8c0@jolleynet.net> Message-ID: <20010824212118.C895@saturn> i use ssh port forwarding to get around the pptp masq problem. i forward pop, smtp and web proxy to an externally the appropriate hosts through an externally sshable host. dan * Mark (Andy) Jolley (majolley at earthlink.net) wrote: > Our office is finally getting up to speed with last century and setting up > VPN. I currently have Sprint broadband, and have a Red Hat 7.0 box as a > firewall with IPChains and MASQ setup. I was wondering if anyone has made > this kind of environment work. My concern is that the protocol types 50 and > 51 are choking on the MASQ. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Or am I > just hosed? > > Thanks > Andy Jolley > > > ---I'd like to have something witty to say here, but frankly I'm not that > bright > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From stimits at idcomm.com Fri Aug 24 22:31:05 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:31:05 -0600 Subject: [lug] More ReiserFS -- hangs on umount?? References: <000001c12b20$7034f070$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B86CF63.E570BFA6@ticnet.com> <3B870512.25870EA4@fpcc.net> <20010824200146.J1210@advancecreations.com> Message-ID: <3B872A09.4FA8DD1E@idcomm.com> John Starkey wrote: > > I just converted 30 gigs on two machines to ReiserFS a few days ago. When I reboot it hangs when unmounting. I let it hang for 6 hours while I was AFK just to see if it would work itself out, but didn't. > > Has anyone experienced this? Any idea what might be causing it? > > Thanks, > > John > > -- > John Starkey > ColoradoParks.net > Advance Creations > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug ReiserFS has had problems with raid1 and nfs, though I don't know the details. Do you use either? Raid1 and nfs have been a problem for several filesystems. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From jstarkey at advancecreations.com Fri Aug 24 22:59:31 2001 From: jstarkey at advancecreations.com (John Starkey) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:59:31 -0600 Subject: [lug] More ReiserFS -- hangs on umount?? In-Reply-To: <3B872A09.4FA8DD1E@idcomm.com>; from stimits@idcomm.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:31:05PM -0600 References: <000001c12b20$7034f070$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B86CF63.E570BFA6@ticnet.com> <3B870512.25870EA4@fpcc.net> <20010824200146.J1210@advancecreations.com> <3B872A09.4FA8DD1E@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010824225931.M1210@advancecreations.com> Thus spake D. Stimits (stimits at idcomm.com): > ReiserFS has had problems with raid1 and nfs, though I don't know the > details. Do you use either? Raid1 and nfs have been a problem for > several filesystems. I haven't set up NFS yet, the daemon isn't running. This is a fresh KRUD from the last version. I installed everything and then upgraded Gnome to the latest. I have two machines that are fairly identical Linux-wise but the hardware is HP4440 w/ 40 gigs and 192 megs and the other machine is an old custom build with dual boot windoze and linux on a fresh 30 gig drive. No RAID. Nothing but IDE drives. 2 ext2 partitions (for /boot and /) /usr, /home, /var are all reiserfs. Thanks for the reply, John -- John Starkey ColoradoParks.net Advance Creations From teece at silverklein.net Sat Aug 25 00:24:30 2001 From: teece at silverklein.net (Timothy Klein) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:24:30 -0600 Subject: [lug] More ReiserFS -- hangs on umount?? In-Reply-To: <20010824200146.J1210@advancecreations.com> References: <000001c12b20$7034f070$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B86CF63.E570BFA6@ticnet.com> <3B870512.25870EA4@fpcc.net> <20010824200146.J1210@advancecreations.com> Message-ID: <20010825002430.A20588@keats> I recall reading on the ReiserFS home page that there what some kind of an unmount bug, and tha a patch should be download for 2.4.5 to fix this bug. Is it possible that it might be this? What kernel are you running? You could poke around on http://www.namesys.com and see if you find anything helpful. * John Starkey (jstarkey at advancecreations.com) wrote: > I just converted 30 gigs on two machines to ReiserFS a few days ago. When I reboot it hangs when unmounting. I let it hang for 6 hours while I was AFK just to see if it would work itself out, but didn't. > > Has anyone experienced this? Any idea what might be causing it? > > Thanks, > > John > > -- > John Starkey > ColoradoParks.net > Advance Creations > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug ============================================== == Timothy Klein || teece at silverklein.net == == ---------------------------------------- == == "Hello, World" 17 Errors, 31 Warnings... == ============================================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From plkey at home.com Sat Aug 25 07:42:44 2001 From: plkey at home.com (Prescott Oelke) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:42:44 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools In-Reply-To: <3B86FB8D.D1D1B27@ticnet.com> Message-ID: <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> I see now. Let's make the web a Windows-centric place. It's been obvious from the start that M$ was looking to pull an "embrace and extend" on the Internet. The sad thing is if they get away with this, certain webspaces will be off limits to non-Windows users. Gotta love M$. Always finding new and innovative ways to screw the common man. Prescott Oelke -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] On Behalf Of Taz Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 7:13 PM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools Another M$ technique?!?!?? Go DOJ!!! http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yh oo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BFE0E71ED%2D96F6%2D4109%2DA172%2D5A23D5072DEE%7D ? From krisapplegate at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 08:55:11 2001 From: krisapplegate at yahoo.com (Kristopher Applegate) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lug] TAR Archiving In-Reply-To: <3B87062E.43594830@fpcc.net> Message-ID: <20010825145511.43621.qmail@web20308.mail.yahoo.com> If I feed the output into split, does it archive first, creating a very large 15+GB file, then split it? The reason I don't want to do that is because I don't have the spare 15+GB anywhere to use. The device I am backing up to literally craps out when it hits 2GB. However, if it splits it on the fly, that would be great. Thanks... > I think I'm misunderstanding something here. > > You can feed the output of tar into split, and that > way you won't use any more > disk space than the full 20 gigs would take up. > -- > Calvin Dodge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From caldodge at fpcc.net Sat Aug 25 09:04:36 2001 From: caldodge at fpcc.net (Calvin Dodge) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:04:36 -0600 Subject: [lug] TAR Archiving References: <20010825145511.43621.qmail@web20308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B87BE84.CE8288E8@fpcc.net> Kristopher Applegate wrote: > > If I feed the output into split, does it archive > first, creating a very large 15+GB file, then split > it? The reason I don't want to do that is because I No - you _pipe_ the output of tar to split. The only data that is actually written to disk is the output of split. > don't have the spare 15+GB anywhere to use. The device > I am backing up to literally craps out when it hits > 2GB. However, if it splits it on the fly, that would > be great. Thanks... That's exactly what it does. I use it to back up some big directories on Mom's computer - I set split to make the file size just a bit smaller than 640 megs, so I can back up the resulting chunks to a CD if needed. Calvin -- Calvin Dodge Certified Linux Bigot (tm) http://www.caldodge.fpcc.net From jstarkey at advancecreations.com Sat Aug 25 11:09:15 2001 From: jstarkey at advancecreations.com (John Starkey) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:09:15 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools In-Reply-To: <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a>; from plkey@home.com on Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 07:42:44AM -0600 References: <3B86FB8D.D1D1B27@ticnet.com> <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> Message-ID: <20010825110915.J3329@advancecreations.com> I did this as a joke a month or so ago when I had a friend of mine check a site for me. Thought it might provide a chuckle in this context. www.advancecreations.com/~jstarkey/msjoke.php John Thus spake Prescott Oelke (plkey at home.com): > I see now. Let's make the web a Windows-centric place. It's been obvious > from the start that M$ was looking to pull an "embrace and extend" on > the Internet. The sad thing is if they get away with this, certain > webspaces will be off limits to non-Windows users. Gotta love M$. Always > finding new and innovative ways to screw the common man. > > Prescott Oelke > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] > On Behalf Of Taz > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 7:13 PM > To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools > > Another M$ technique?!?!?? Go DOJ!!! > http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yh > oo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BFE0E71ED%2D96F6%2D4109%2DA172%2D5A23D5072DEE%7D > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug -- John Starkey ColoradoParks.net Advance Creations From bthoen at gisnet.com Sat Aug 25 11:15:56 2001 From: bthoen at gisnet.com (Bill Thoen) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:15:56 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools References: <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> Message-ID: <3B87DD4C.80303119@gisnet.com> I suppose it's heresy here to suggest that maybe Netscape hasn't been keeping pace with the functionality of IE, so why should the Great Retarded Giant sitting on our doorstep to the Northwest continue support for it? I haven't really checked NN6 too deeply because when I loaded it on my (Windows) system it wallowed like a pig. But I've been disappointed at NN 4.7's lack of support for basic W3 standard web things like CSS, table details, etc. In some respects, IE just works better. But I have to grin when I read that one of M$'s reasons for dropping support is security. Netscape's no threat there. IE already supports more viruses than Netscape, Mosaic, Opera, and all the rest combined! ;-) Are there are any really up-to-date alternatives for web browsers here in Linux-land? (I'm new to it, and currently my L-box hasn't got enough memory to run a GUI so I am stuck with Links and Lynx for the nonce. But I'm working at putting another one together that will have more memory.) - Bill Thoen Prescott Oelke wrote: > > I see now. Let's make the web a Windows-centric place. It's been obvious > from the start that M$ was looking to pull an "embrace and extend" on > the Internet. The sad thing is if they get away with this, certain > webspaces will be off limits to non-Windows users. Gotta love M$. Always > finding new and innovative ways to screw the common man. > > Prescott Oelke > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] > On Behalf Of Taz > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 7:13 PM > To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools > > Another M$ technique?!?!? Go DOJ!!! > http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yh > oo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7BFE0E71ED%2D96F6%2D4109%2DA172%2D5A23D5072DEE%7D > From efm at tummy.com Sat Aug 25 12:09:55 2001 From: efm at tummy.com (Evelyn Mitchell) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:09:55 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools In-Reply-To: <3B87DD4C.80303119@gisnet.com>; from bthoen@gisnet.com on Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:15:56AM -0600 References: <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B87DD4C.80303119@gisnet.com> Message-ID: <20010825120955.A12306@tummy.com> On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:15:56AM -0600, Bill Thoen wrote: > > Are there are any really up-to-date alternatives for web browsers > here in Linux-land? (I'm new to it, and currently my L-box hasn't > got enough memory to run a GUI so I am stuck with Links and Lynx for > the nonce. But I'm working at putting another one together that will > have more memory.) I've been enjoying Konqueror. Good CSS support, a lot faster than Netscape, and stable. It has yet to hang my X, and when it crashes, it only kills the bad window, not all of them. Evelyn efm at tummy.com From jstarkey at advancecreations.com Sat Aug 25 12:46:58 2001 From: jstarkey at advancecreations.com (John Starkey) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:46:58 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools In-Reply-To: <20010825120955.A12306@tummy.com>; from efm@tummy.com on Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:09:55PM -0600 References: <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B87DD4C.80303119@gisnet.com> <20010825120955.A12306@tummy.com> Message-ID: <20010825124658.M3329@advancecreations.com> Thus spake Evelyn Mitchell (efm at tummy.com): > On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:15:56AM -0600, Bill Thoen wrote: > > > > Are there are any really up-to-date alternatives for web browsers > > here in Linux-land? (I'm new to it, and currently my L-box hasn't > > got enough memory to run a GUI so I am stuck with Links and Lynx for > > the nonce. But I'm working at putting another one together that will > > have more memory.) > > I've been enjoying Konqueror. Good CSS support, a lot faster than > Netscape, and stable. It has yet to hang my X, and when it crashes, > it only kills the bad window, not all of them. I'll second that one. I just checked a site that's a pretty hard design. The guy that did it racked his brain on iMac IE and NN. I checked it in Konquerer and it parsed exactly as intended. Mozilla/Linux totally trashes the same site. Some td cells are invading others. NN parses it fine, but those damned form fields. Eeeeeshk. NN 4.7 is all I've been using; I think I may be going with Konquerer from now on. I've heard that NN 6.1 is out and looking pretty good with the exception of some JS issues. Not sure if they have a Linux version out yet. From herod at interact-tv.com Sat Aug 25 13:08:05 2001 From: herod at interact-tv.com (Scott A. Herod) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:08:05 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools References: <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B87DD4C.80303119@gisnet.com> <20010825120955.A12306@tummy.com> <20010825124658.M3329@advancecreations.com> Message-ID: <3B87F795.34F474A@interact-tv.com> John Starkey wrote: > > Thus spake Evelyn Mitchell (efm at tummy.com): > > I've heard that NN 6.1 is out and looking pretty good with the exception of > some JS issues. Not sure if they have a Linux version out yet. One of the guys in the office tried it and said that it was much buggier than 4.7. I second the Konqueror comments and would lose NS entirely except that I've got all my mail configured for it. From sledgehammer2010 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 13:27:39 2001 From: sledgehammer2010 at yahoo.com (Dhruva B. Reddy) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:27:39 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools In-Reply-To: <3B87F795.34F474A@interact-tv.com> References: <000a01c12d6b$d18e9ea0$6c4f0341@c1566405a> <3B87DD4C.80303119@gisnet.com> <20010825120955.A12306@tummy.com> <20010825124658.M3329@advancecreations.com> <3B87F795.34F474A@interact-tv.com> Message-ID: <20010825132739.B1696@greatspacetoaster> I have always found Netscape 4.x on anything other than Windows nothing short of horrible. I abandoned it the moment I discovered Opera. However, Opera is not without its problems--it has some JavaScript issues, mostly on forms that use it to enforce entry into mandatory fields (it sometimes refuses to send the form, claiming that a mandatory field is blank, when in fact it's not). I have given up the idea of using just one browser. Opera renders pretty quickly. Mozilla is catching up, though. I have switched from Opera to Mozilla as my primary browser. I switch to Opera when Mozilla barfs (like today, when I ran into some downloading problems). I wasn't impressed with Konqueror when I tried it late last year (I can't remember why). From your comments however, it may be time to have another look. Dhruva On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:08:05PM -0600, Scott A. Herod wrote: > John Starkey wrote: > > > > Thus spake Evelyn Mitchell (efm at tummy.com): > > > > I've heard that NN 6.1 is out and looking pretty good with the exception of > > some JS issues. Not sure if they have a Linux version out yet. > > One of the guys in the office tried it and said that it was much buggier > than 4.7. I second the Konqueror comments and would lose NS entirely > except that I've got all my mail configured for it. From plkey at home.com Sat Aug 25 13:39:30 2001 From: plkey at home.com (Prescott Oelke) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:39:30 -0600 Subject: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools In-Reply-To: <20010825132739.B1696@greatspacetoaster> Message-ID: <000001c12d9d$a8bf0190$6c4f0341@c1566405a> I tend toward Opera for everyday use and Mozilla when I need support for Java. But Opera supports Java now too. I still run into problems with Opera on some JavaScript stuff but in those cases Mozilla always works. The Konquerer browser is getting nicer (the KDE 2.2 as a whole is really nice) but I rarely use it as Opera tends to render most pages better. Prescott Oelke -----Original Message----- From: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us [mailto:lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us] On Behalf Of Dhruva B. Reddy Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 1:28 PM To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us Subject: Re: [lug] Microsoft drops support for Netscape tools I have always found Netscape 4.x on anything other than Windows nothing short of horrible. I abandoned it the moment I discovered Opera. However, Opera is not without its problems--it has some JavaScript issues, mostly on forms that use it to enforce entry into mandatory fields (it sometimes refuses to send the form, claiming that a mandatory field is blank, when in fact it's not). I have given up the idea of using just one browser. Opera renders pretty quickly. Mozilla is catching up, though. I have switched from Opera to Mozilla as my primary browser. I switch to Opera when Mozilla barfs (like today, when I ran into some downloading problems). I wasn't impressed with Konqueror when I tried it late last year (I can't remember why). From your comments however, it may be time to have another look. Dhruva On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 01:08:05PM -0600, Scott A. Herod wrote: > John Starkey wrote: > > > > Thus spake Evelyn Mitchell (efm at tummy.com): > > > > I've heard that NN 6.1 is out and looking pretty good with the exception of > > some JS issues. Not sure if they have a Linux version out yet. > > One of the guys in the office tried it and said that it was much buggier > than 4.7. I second the Konqueror comments and would lose NS entirely > except that I've got all my mail configured for it. _______________________________________________ Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From dajo at frii.com Sat Aug 25 16:47:05 2001 From: dajo at frii.com (David) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:47:05 -0600 Subject: [lug] WinSpam Message-ID: <200108252247.f7PMl5b01005@Rednose.Anthrax> I hope that this is not a pain in the neck for anyone. 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From feenix at ticnet.com Sat Aug 25 17:26:52 2001 From: feenix at ticnet.com (Taz) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:26:52 -0400 Subject: [lug] 1394- firewire Message-ID: <3B88343B.A85720CE@ticnet.com> Hi all: I've spent a few hours trying to compile some firewire stuff. For some reason, several tools fail the compile due to the following error: /foo/bar/path/gscanbus-0.6/gscanbus.c:1112: undefined reference to `raw1394_get_handle' Several programs have failed to compile due to some reference to "raw1394_get_handle". Does anybody know what lib/header/whatever I need for this to work? I can get dvgrab and xdvplay to work (successfully), so I know I've got the main 1394 stuff installed correctly, but the handle thing is annoying. Any ideas/help? Thanks in advance. Jeff From stimits at idcomm.com Sat Aug 25 21:20:12 2001 From: stimits at idcomm.com (D. Stimits) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:20:12 -0600 Subject: [lug] 1394- firewire References: <3B88343B.A85720CE@ticnet.com> Message-ID: <3B886AEC.48D37AF2@idcomm.com> Taz wrote: > > Hi all: > > I've spent a few hours trying to compile some firewire stuff. For some > reason, several tools fail the compile due to the following error: > > /foo/bar/path/gscanbus-0.6/gscanbus.c:1112: undefined reference to > `raw1394_get_handle' > > Several programs have failed to compile due to some reference to > "raw1394_get_handle". Does anybody know what lib/header/whatever I need > for this to work? I can get dvgrab and xdvplay to work (successfully), > so I know I've got the main 1394 stuff installed correctly, but the > handle thing is annoying. Any ideas/help? Thanks in advance. > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug Probably it is a missing library if it is a stand-alone program; else if it is a kernel module it is a missing module dependency. Or perhaps the lib is there, but not in the search path during linking. D. Stimits, stimits at idcomm.com From jafo at tummy.com Sat Aug 25 22:07:51 2001 From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:07:51 -0600 Subject: [lug] Splitting mail file In-Reply-To: <20010824111249.N16147@adamselene.ihs.com>; from kenw@ihs.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:12:49AM -0600 References: <20010824111249.N16147@adamselene.ihs.com> Message-ID: <20010825220751.A29170@tummy.com> On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:12:49AM -0600, Ken Weinert wrote: >Any know of any utilities off hand that will take a mail spool and split >it so that each message gets put into its own file? The "formail" program will take an mbox on input and run a program or command for every message, redirecting the message to stdin of that program. Works delightfully. Then you just have to create a script that increments a number and cats stdin to that file. I've done that in the past. Formail has some other very delightful things in it too... Sean -- Follow your dreams. Unless it's the one where you're at work in your underwear during a fire drill. Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python From jafo at tummy.com Sat Aug 25 22:10:38 2001 From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:10:38 -0600 Subject: [lug] Kingston Switching Hubs In-Reply-To: <3B8679F5.6050903@archenergy.com>; from fschmid@archenergy.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:59:49AM -0600 References: <20010821091039.A8518@aberdeen.fpcc.net> <20010823223615.C20203@tummy.com> <3B8679F5.6050903@archenergy.com> Message-ID: <20010825221038.B29170@tummy.com> On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:59:49AM -0600, Ferdinand Schmid wrote: >Be careful! I had 2 out of 3 LinkSys switches go out recently (both about 1 >year old). They were 8 port switches. Our 24 port switch is still alive (about >1 year old). For doing it cheap I had much better luck with D-Link switches. Weird... I've got 3 of them at home, aged about 18 months now. No problems *AT ALL*. Hmmm. D-link I'm pissed at because their 802.11b AP seems to REQUIRE windows software to do any configuration of. Gak.... Sean -- This mountain is PURE SNOW! Do you know what the street value of this mountain is!?! -- Better Off Dead Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python From manuka at nerdherd.net Sat Aug 25 22:12:01 2001 From: manuka at nerdherd.net (Ian Hall-Beyer) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [lug] WinSpam In-Reply-To: <200108252247.f7PMl5b01005@Rednose.Anthrax> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, David wrote: > I hope that this is not a pain in the neck for anyone. I just > received this and found it funny. I only found it amusing the first 50 times... It's been in my permaban filter for about 6 months now -Ian -- If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution. --Eric Jorgensen From jstarkey at advancecreations.com Sun Aug 26 00:46:20 2001 From: jstarkey at advancecreations.com (John Starkey) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:46:20 -0600 Subject: [lug] Globs, tar and pipes (ftp question) Message-ID: <20010826004620.D4874@advancecreations.com> I'm trying to weed through roughly 40 gigs on an ftp server. Each dir that I want contains ABC at the end. The server allows tar'ing but not writing. Anyone know a way to do this? In the root dir I'm finding the dirs I want with: ls [A-Z]*/*ABC I've tried: mget [A-Z]*/*ABC/[a-z]*/ and get [A-Z]*/*ABC/[a-z]*.tar And many other variations. Is there a way to pipe them into tar and get? I'm getting to the point where any more experimentation would be rude. wget is returning "error in server response, closing control connection" just after the port command. So I'm leaning towards ftp.... that comfort zone thing again. TIA, John -- John Starkey ColoradoParks.net Advance Creations From shag-blug at booyaka.com Sun Aug 26 10:12:38 2001 From: shag-blug at booyaka.com (Paul Walmsley) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:12:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [lug] 1394- firewire In-Reply-To: <3B88343B.A85720CE@ticnet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Taz wrote: > /foo/bar/path/gscanbus-0.6/gscanbus.c:1112: undefined reference to > `raw1394_get_handle' > > Several programs have failed to compile due to some reference to > "raw1394_get_handle". Does anybody know what lib/header/whatever I need > for this to work? I can get dvgrab and xdvplay to work (successfully), Try checking to see if you've installed libraw1394 - 'locate libraw1394' should do the trick. If not, you can grab the source from , or RPMs from rpmfind. - Paul From socket at peakpeak.com Sun Aug 26 12:45:21 2001 From: socket at peakpeak.com (Chris Riddoch) Date: 26 Aug 2001 12:45:21 -0600 Subject: [lug] looking for TeX viewer/print In-Reply-To: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com> References: <3B86A561.971F36A4@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <87u1yuvewu.fsf@peakpeak.com> Well, I think this was my cue... now's my time to chime in on the thread. "D. Stimits" writes: > One thing I am frustrated with by plain ascii is lack of color (this > isn't just for resume's, but includes other printing, e.g., syntax > highlighted source code). RTF may have some ability to work with color, > but I suspect you are right about it just leading to frustration. RTF is a hassle. I've never got it to work right. The layout *always* breaks. If the layout's going to be inconsistent, you might as well be using ASCII. > I was under the impression that LaTeX macros were there to do > something similar to this: Take content described logically, such as > a heading, title, or paragraph, and format it to conform to a style > specification. Thus, a need for a detailed style specification. It > sounds like LaTeX also has an ability to work more in a free-form > way, is this correct? Can I work without a style specification? It's both, really. LaTeX is essentially a bunch of macros on top of TeX. TeX is essentially a programming language designed for typesetting applications. You *don't* want to use raw TeX unless you know what you're doing, have a lot of free time (like a summer break, for example) or need the kind of typesetting control only a programming language could do - calculating the placement of something on the basis of variables, loops, etc. It's a real power tool, with all kinds of nooks and crannies and features I can't even imagine uses for - but I'm sure that given precise specifications for output, I'd have reason to use some of them. The short answer: for a resume, LaTeX is a good choice if you have a suitable reference and tutorial. There's a bit of a lack of comprehensible stuff (to new users, anyway) on the 'net, but the books on the subject can shed some light on the matter. > > > Plain TeX would be good, but what I lack is a a WYSIWYG TeX editor > > > (does such a thing even exist?). It's really not WYSIWYG, but rather a graphical front-end to (La)TeX that involves a GUI and some clicking... but it's pre-alpha, mostly in my head right now, and still rather in the design stages. Think of a mixture of things - it's a cross between a GUI programming environment (editing and syntax highlighting and tree displays of commands), parallels of GIMP-like tools for manipulating TeX boxes, glue, etc., graphical display of TeX's registers, a constantly open instance of TeX for on-the-fly generated output (viewed in a different pane), but still the same TeX behind it all, with LaTeX macros, GUI front-ends to all the toys like bibtex built in, and easily extendible. It'll be the Emacs of text processors (quite possibly *using* Emacs), with buttons and menus and tutorials and things that people like to have. If LyX doesn't do what you want, and you still want the power of LaTeX, you're left with , the latex processor, ghostview, a few shell scripts to make life easier, and a lot of things. Or some similar combination. The closest thing to WYSIWYG would be LyX, but the truth is, anything that would make LaTeX *really* fit into the WYSIWYG view of the world would require hiding its real strengths. > > It kind of all depends on your definition of WYSIWYG. If you edit > > LaTeX/TeX in one window and run xdvi in another you've basically got a > > WYSIWYG kind of operation. > > I would like to do things like highlight text, then set it to bold or a > color or a specific font size. There is a certain difficulty in viewing > on one window and then searching for the right spot in another window > for editing. In that case, you'll probably be disappointed with the learning curve of LaTeX. I don't mean to dissuade you, if you want to learn it, but there's writing basic letters, resumes, memos, and then there's Text Processing. Both can make any *print* output you want (each in their own way, with many qualifiers on how to go about it and the limitations of the processor), but if you want WYSIWYG, what you probably want is actually a clone of Microsoft Word. Staroffice is nice for that. > LyX is the closest I know of at the moment, and I'm not > very good with it. Btw, I've never seen color in xdvi, does xdvi support > color? Probably I simply haven't run into a color case. I haven't done much with color. I save my color printer cartridges for the Gimp, rather than text. My resume is in black and white. > As far as this sort of scheme goes though, I like the way ghostview can > monitor a file and auto-update each time the file is edited. Ghostview > is very nice, it even allows color, and is a nice printing aid. If > ghostview could allow interactive editing, rather than just display, I'd > be incredibly thrilled (cheap thrills?). Ghostview is rather nice, yes. I like it - it's my Print Preview. > As someone mentioned, there is a need to recompile from TeX to produce > the dvi format; the dvi is the binary form, not useful for human eyes, > but it could be used directly by an editor. Or an interpreter would be > nice, to allow updates to occur simultaneously with edits (this is why > ghostview works so nicely...it has an interpreter and the postscript > itself is not compiled to an intermediate form that would possibly take > multiple passes). Monitoring through xdvi, and editing elsewhere, is a > lot of work when just maintaining and altering a document (one that > might have minor changes on a daily basis). It seems I'm going to have > to learn to do this though. I already have some TeX references, but they > are primarily mathematics references, and don't cover topics like color. Ahh. You're thinking of ActiveTeX: http://www.activetex.org/ > > Fundamentally you are starting to run into what I think is a classic > > problem in document processing. Namely, the realization that there can be > > more than one incarnation of a document (electronic, printed, braille, > > etc.). This is where the word processor and WYSIWYG oriented people start > > to get frustrated. > > Yes, I'm hoping to do some basic editing, and have high quality output > for printing. These are two different things, often. Editing is . High quality output can come from LaTeX, Lout, SGML+DSSSL, XML+XSL+FOP, Applixware, Staroffice, KOffice, (endless list of similar word processors), or if you're so inclined, Adobe Acrobat, Framemaker, an old version of Aldus Pagemaker for Windows 3.11 (heh), or, if you're really desperate, HTML+CSS (browser specific, naturally). If you're really masochistic, raw Postscript. It depends entirely on your needs. If you have to give your document to someone electronically who can't do anything but open something in Microsoft Word for the Mac, then you're better off using Microsoft Word for the Mac than *anything* linux provides, much less any recent version of Microsoft Word for the PC. > The document typesetting abilities go beyond what I need, but the > solutions that don't use TeX or PostScript on Linux seem to fall > short in a lot of ways, most often when printing. How so? > So the next step up, to get good printing, is a major leap beyond > what I need, and nothing in between exists. There are a lot of options, really. If you don't need to share anything but the printed output with anyone else, your decision should probably be driven by what will get the job done. > In a way similar to how XML was designed as a simpler substitute to > SGML, while still being convenient in ways of HTML, I wish there was > an intermediate TeX and intermediate PostScript...designed to > actually provide good printing control, but not designed to be a > publishing tool with control to a ten-thousandth of an inch. I'm a little confused by this. For most practical purposes, XML is a subset of SGML. XML is convenient because it's *not* HTML. The horrible evil that is HTML should disappear off the face of the earth to be replaced with something that properly abstracts content from presentation. XML fits that bill, and I'd be more than happy to see it happen. But that's another rant. TeX and Postscript are actually programming languages. They're not really meant to be used by hand. Postscript is almost always generated by something else - dvips, Gimp, whatever. LaTeX was written to make the programming aspects of TeX less apparent to its users - so that the Typesetter can design the stylesheets, and everyone else can just write the material that goes into document *without concern for the presentation*, trusting the writer of the stylesheet. And as I mentioned earlier, you *can* opt to not use the stylesheets in LaTeX, but expect to jump through more hoops to do what you want. > > The word processor design (WYSIWYG) is very limited since it makes the > > assumption that you only want what amounts to a computerized > > typewriter. This is a very well accepted idea since people have been > > using pencils, pens, and typewriters for a very long time. It isn't a big > > jump from traditional typewriting in the office to word processing on the > > computer, and you gain the computer's ability to erase, change text, > > incorporate pictures, spell check, etc.. This makes the word processor a > > well understood tool, but it is very limited. > > This is actually not too bad for many of the things I want to do (not > all). Problem solved. You need a word processor. > I currently need a free form editing device that allows color and > polished look, and then actually prints the same as it looks on the > monitor (to some degree I consider that a "quality" issue). The > second thing I need is a format that I can send electronically, and > expect the other end to also be able to print a reasonable > facsimile. What formats can the other end accept? This can narrow down your options *very* quickly. Rather than beating around the bush, if you're implying that they use Microsoft Word, save yourself the conversion trouble and just use Microsoft Word. (Assuming you didn't turn your MS Word CD into a coaster using the microwave to make a nice blue electric shine over the surface of the CD for a brief moment before it bursts into yellow flames, like my old roommate did. It's quite an impressive sight, by the way. Don't try this at home.) > HTML fails because the viewers being used (probably IE or Netscape) > are inconsistent at printing, even when they display the same. It > can come close though in terms of being able to send things to other > people and at least have the display on the monitor look nice, over > a variety of o/s (there are some things that one has to be careful > with, but display gotchas are far fewer than print gotchas). If html > tools that are in general use would actually print the same as they > display, I'd be satisfied with that for now. If that's your only other choice, then knock yourself out with HTML. Just make sure you know what browser and version the other side is using so you can write your HTML so it works on their browser. If you don't know what they use, good luck in writing anything that will look and print suitably on all browsers. > This is good when writing a book or thesis or other paper that will be > processed by someone who is knowledgable in the area. It doesn't work > very well for general information interchange to the average user. Information interchange is a nice little ideal, but even in some people's ideal XML world there would be competing DTDs. There's a lot of interest in having a common format that could convert to and from everything ever made, but there's more than a couple problems in the way, including... 1) Feature support. As an extreme example, Appleworks for the Apple ][c probably isn't exactly very good at handling embedded Windows 3.1 OLE objects. How do you specify middle-ground standards for features only one word processor supports? 2) Vendor support. This means not locking the specification in the back of a filing cabinet in a disused cupboard in the cellar of the local planning office, with a warning labeled "Beware of the Leopard" on it. (Obligatory Douglas Adams reference) Even more so, this means effort on the part of vendors to write converters to and from their format for the common format. Microsoft has repeatedly shown no effort to reveal their file formats, and ObscureWordProcessor for the Mac was made by a company that dissolved two years ago. How do you uncover their file format? If you want interchange to the "average user," you need to know what specific formats this user can use. Not import, *use*. If this means living in a Microsoft World, well, we do... but we can advocate (and train people for) better systems while we accommodate other peoples' unfortunate reality in the specific situations that call for it. > On > the other hand, the means on Linux which work for general interchange > with other o/s's and non-technical users don't print right. Both of them > fail in one area. Skimming ahead, I see some URL's for resume styles, > which might do the job, if I can take a TeX (LaTeX) document generated > from one of these, and come up with a form that I can (a) print locally, > and (b) exports a format other o/s non-technical users can view. PDF will help you there. > Possibly if there is a problem with the latter exported format not > printing correctly, I could print the document myself and send it in > parallel with email of the electronic format. If that's an option, don't bother trying to make a file that will work on their computer. People prefer reading from paper rather than from a screen anyway. > So far the best solution that can be used by non-technical users, > and also prints the way it displays, seems to be Word (but then it > has the reverse frustration...I can't seem to produce it on > Linux...even app's that have an import/export ability don't do it > correctly and fail...when it doesn't actually crash or refuse to > import, the imported format often loses quality when trying to print > it, it prints what is displayed). The easiest thing to do is dual boot. I've been running pure linux for a few years, but I can't say it hasn't been without some amount of accommodation. I grudgingly use the university labs when I really need to use a Microsoft product, and those cases are rare. I can't afford to buy current versions of anything, and I'm stuck with my useless old CDs of Windows 95 and Word 95. Staroffice may never have perfect filters, since they have to reverse engineer Word, and I use it to *read* documents, but I worry about things being broken. The fact is, Word is not an acceptable format for *general purpose* document interchange because of the problem you mention. Nothing can *really* read Word files except Word. By the time that changes, nothing can read the new Word format except the new version of Word. The vast majority of the time, sending a PDF file and a url to the acrobat reader site is good enough for general purpose document interchange. > My main interaction attempts with LaTeX have so far been through LyX, > which probably places more constraints that pure TeX or LaTeX. Probably, yes, but I must admit, I haven't used LyX yet. More out of habit than anything else, I just write LaTeX in XEmacs - an option I'd recommend, if you get one of the good books on LaTeX. On the other hand, LyX might be easier. > I really wish the import menu didn't have everything except ascii > text deactivated (the export menu doesn't even have any entries). I > probably need to give up on LyX and look into actually learning TeX > (I wonder if windows understands any of the TeX output formats > without installing special software?). I'd assume that if things are deactivated in the import menu, it's either because of a lack of available filters installed on the system, or maybe a compile-time option, maybe the configuration of LyX, or less likely permissions or paths. But I'd be wary of anything that claims to convert from Word to LaTeX. > What format would you suggest which: (a) is readable by non-technical > windows users (e.g., IE or Word can import it and the imported version > looks like what I see from Linux...PostScript fails here), (b) prints > correctly from default viewing tools of windows (html fails here), and > (c) has at least some application available on Linux which will allow me > to print it correctly (PostScript works if the PostScript output > actually looks like the screen view) without rebooting to windows? It is > a tall order, and I don't think there is a solution that is completely > satisfactory. PDF, or Word. That's assuming that by 'default viewing tools of windows' you include Acrobat Reader. Word is my last choice, really. It's a pain in the tail for someone with an old version of Word to read a new Word document - it's not even compatible with itself, it's a convoluted format that can't degrade for viewing on older versions of Word at all. Ask anyone who's never felt a need to upgrade from their 486 and just got a new Word document from a friend. > Any "polished" business paper (versus technical documents) requires > attention to appearance. *cough* Any document that needs to impress something on its audience requires attention to appearance. > I need a polished look in both printed form and electronic form, > with the expectation that if I send an electronic format, it might > be printed. In that case, you need to use the format supported natively by what they use. > There are many people that make a decision to drop further > consideration of a document the moment it looks sloppy, has spelling > errors, so on...they don't have time to deal with frustrations of > fixing someone else's carelessness, and I have no influence > whatsoever on changing their way of thinking (nor do I have the > power to ignore these people). Hmm. As a tangent, it seems nothing short of ridiculous to trash a document on the basis of its grammar or spelling alone, rather than its content. > If windows and standard applications of all the platforms and users that > I must communicate with all understood TeX, and had the ability to both > view and print it, I'd snap it up in an instant and become a guru in the > field. "Standard applications" begs the question of which standard. You can generate PDF from LaTeX, which can be viewed and printed on a number of systems. > The strengths that are mentioned above about the ability to > create a consistent format and enforce a style are good for professional > documentation and academic publishing...but within the area of casual > exchange among unskilled computer users it breaks down, and becomes a > road block. I suspect that if someone at MS suggested creating TeX > import and export abilities in Word, they'd be fired. And a big surprise that would be, eh? Casual exchange isn't easy. > I'm overly pessimistic in this area because it has been a major > frustration that I can't do anything about. I don't think I'm quite as pessimistic. Different needs require different tools, and a glut of tools that do similar things is better than a single tool that doesn't really fit any niche. > I'm tied by what is available to the common windows user, and by > what I can print from linux. Even if I can ignore windows users, I > can't seem to get easier word processing documents to print right, > so I'm forced to learn TeX or PostScript and write code to print a > nice document... The only time I've ever had to write Postscript by hand was to make my business cards, and I've since learned how to do it other ways. I've never *had* to write TeX for anything, because I haven't had to do anything that the LaTeX macros don't provide for. And anymore, I do what I need in SGML and DSSSL. That includes writing academic papers, my resume, letters, proposals, and memos. > I can no longer just do simple edits and be done, I have to manually > rewrite raw document tags. And in the end, when I find what I need, > I still need to reboot to win just to put in a new ink cartridge and > align the ink jet printer, so I still can't avoid win. Major > frustration. *That* sounds like a winprinter problem. Yaaay. Here's what I did for my resume: I wrote it in LaTeX, generated PDF and PS from it, and then had a friend edit it and make a Word 97 version. A lot of temporary agencies want Word format, and most seem to have computers with Windows 98 and Word 97. I sent email to the relevant places, looking for work, and included a URL to my web page which has links to all the formats. Two of them had difficulty printing my Word 97 document anyway. -- Chris Riddoch | epistemological socket at peakpeak.com | humility From lasten at korinth.com Sun Aug 26 19:00:36 2001 From: lasten at korinth.com (Todd) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:00:36 -0600 Subject: [lug] sendmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01082619003604.00910@lupy.lanxtra.com> That makes sense I configured it as below. Then did makemap hash on the alias and virtusertable. After that restarted sendmail and now I get a local config error I thought that may happen it is well an ugly set up I need to get around to spending time fixing it. Thanks for help I will keep working on it:P -tn On Wednesday 31 December 1969 04:59 pm, you wrote: > Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) > In-reply-to: <85B5853D4393D5118BAE009027DE2A6CD782 at mcoexc05.mlm.maxtor.com> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 > Importance: Normal > Sender: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us > Errors-To: lug-admin at lug.boulder.co.us > X-BeenThere: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.4 > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us > List-Help: > List-Post: > List-Subscribe: , > > List-Id: Boulder (Colorado) Linux Users Group -- General Mailing List > List-Unsubscribe: > , > > List-Archive: > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:20:59 -0600 > X-UIDL: 1604 > Status: RO > > Well, the short answer is: > > 1) Add an entry to your virtusertable file > > @host.domain.com nullaccount > > 2) Add an entry to /etc/aliases > > nullaccount: /dev/null > > > > Anyone know how to configure sendmail to accept all email for > host.domain.com > regardless of address and send it into /dev/null? > > Thanks for any help, > Todd > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug > > _______________________________________________ > Web Page: http://lug.boulder.co.us > Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug From elango1 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 26 20:04:40 2001 From: elango1 at hotmail.com (Elangovan Subbiah) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 02:04:40 +0000 Subject: [lug] installing linux with NT Dual boot Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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