[lug] Linux for Dad

[Steve A Hart]

Ouch...you said the "V" word.  bad...so bad.  I'm staying out of this 
conversation.  My dad is smart enough to avoid "V" at all costs.

Nate Duehr wrote:
> 
> On Aug 19, 2008, at 9:04 PM, David L. Anselmi wrote:
> 
>> So.  There are some people out there who are "common people" and would
>> like to use Linux.  I don't know why they might prefer that to a Mac,
>> which is wonderful, or to Vista, which they'll learn at work.  But there
>> are some.
> 
> Vista at work?  Nahh... not yet, really.  My company has actively 
> avoided Vista upgrades and even been cow-towing to those who want Office 
> 2007/8/whatever ripped back off their machines in lieu of Office 2003.  
> Most folks find the UI changes distracting at best, debilitating at best.
> 
> Vista/New Office has very little "traction" in the corporate environment 
> right now.   Maybe later it'll be "forced" by Microsoft, and they won't 
> have a choice... but the 20-30% performance decrease of Vista on the 
> same hardware running the same applications (well documented now) isn't 
> exactly endearing it to IT managers with real-world budgets... new 
> hardware every few years isn't as likely as it was a few years ago... 
> especially as they start to get some real data on ROI.
> 
> We'll see.  The jury's still out on Vista/New Office... for the moment.
> 
>> But, when these people tell me they want to learn Linux, I think in
>> terms of bash, and lilo, and LVM.  They don't want to learn that, they
>> want to learn how to do what the "common people" do--burn CDs, watch 
>> movies, write letters.  So I can't really help them.
> 
> LOL... that's my problem too.  I use Linux at the command line as a 
> server tool, mostly.  I know there are plenty of people who spend time 
> with the desktop and common tools/applications that do things like you 
> mention, but I'm almost never doing that stuff on Linux.  When I do, 
> it's with cdrecord, and "old-school" tools that most folks aren't really 
> interested in trying, it seems.  The command-line turns almost everyone 
> off now, but it's where I do "stuff" on Linux still to this day.
> 
> (Maybe I should try harder to learn GUI-centric things?  Not sure...)
> 
>> I don't think "common people" use mailing lists for learning.  The more
>> technical might use web forums.  Some may use a group.  The rest...
>> where do people learn how to use a Mac?  Should we do something to help
>> those who want to "learn Linux"?  Or just tell them, "too bad, buy a 
>> Mac"?
> 
> Hmm, not sure if this is really a question, but the built-in help system 
> on Macs is amazingly good.  It's focused on "normal user" type things.  
> Apple's forums online aren't too bad for finding common things, and 
> there are a few "forum" type websites (I don't like that format, but 
> it's more and more common these days -- mailing lists aren't the 
> "typical" place to go for these things anymore, you're right.)  
> Honestly, the built in/pseudo-online help system on Windows has gotten 
> better over the years too.  "Help" in the menu actually might lead to 
> help... amazingly enough... so many folks got used to them being less 
> than useful on just about every OS over the years, that 
> friends/acquaintances are surprised when I point them to built-in help 
> that is actually helpful, these days.  This is one area where the 
> commercial OS's went back to their "roots" over the last few years that 
> seems to have worked, especially with it being tied to updated info 
> online from the vendors, so "continuous" updates are built in.
> 
> Linux has no good equivalent, yet...
> 
> I'll throw the "yet" on the end of that to sound positive/hopeful, but 
> I'm skeptical that Linux desktops will catch up in this regard.  Many 
> distros/developers seem to actively drive away professional 
> documentation people that sometimes show up and volunteer to work on 
> good docs.  I haven't quite figured out why/how that always seems to 
> happen, but few distros actively recruit or nurture documentation 
> folks... yet... (another yet.)
> 
>> I don't know so much about BLUG, being in a college town, but CLUE has
>> grown much less technical over the years, as many of the obscure things
>> in Linux now take care of themselves.  So it is in the process of
>> evolving to be a group for these "common people".  But it's slow going 
>> and there's no marketing department to figure out what works best.
> 
> Interesting observation.  I wonder if it's because of what you say... 
> progress... just getting the OS loaded is a major concern for "average" 
> computer users, but InstallFests still help make up the delta between 
> where the installer's leave off, and the real hardware drivers get 
> loaded (closed drivers is still the biggest "problem" for most folks... 
> it seems to me), and then the "regular" meetings aren't focused on 
> obscure system configuration/admin topics anymore because those things 
> have (usually/hopefully) sane default settings for most folks.
> 
> I don't know.  Interesting stuff to think/talk about though.
> 
> -- 
> Nate Duehr
> nate at natetech.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Web Page:  http://lug.boulder.co.us
> Mailing List: http://lists.lug.boulder.co.us/mailman/listinfo/lug
> Join us on IRC: lug.boulder.co.us port=6667 channel=#colug

-- 
Steve Hart
Systems Administrator
Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research
University of Colorado Boulder
shart at colorado.edu
(303)492-8109