[lug] Tipping service workers (was: Credit)

[Nate Duehr]

On 2/3/2010 9:56 AM, Davide Del Vento wrote:
>
> I'm not surprised about what you wrote, but I think that it would be
> better to chat about this topic in person at the cafe. Do you ever go
> to the hacking society? I go, but not very often (and I won't go this
> week).
>    

Sadly I haven't attended an in-person BLUG or Hacking Society meeting in 
Boulder in many many years.  I moved to Centennial almost a decade ago, 
and it's just too far away.

>    
>> What I don't like paying for is government laws designed
>> to replace common sense.
>>      
> Depends on the possible effects of such a lack of law. Would you
> remove (or being against to add) any regulation on food safety,
> because it's clearly common sense that nobody should sell food
> contaminated from bacteria or other sources? I hope not!
>    

I don't know how to answer this. On the one hand, I understand the need 
for national standards for food since it's pretty far down Maslow's 
Heirarchy of Needs and everyone needs to eat.  On the other hand, how 
much scrutiny did this lunch I'm eating REALLY get for the price I pay 
to "inspect" it.

The State of Colorado does more "hands on" inspecting by far of local 
restraunts than the Feds do, but in theory the Feds are monitoring the 
raw (literally) products they're using.

Additionally when I go to the Farmer's Market, I'd hazard a guess that 
those products have had even less "inspection" than most, but are almost 
always of a consistently higher quality than things purchased in 
corporate stores.

So... is the system effective?  I'm not sure. Is it worth what we pay 
for it?  Probably.  It's marginally one of the lowest priced line items 
on the Federal budget, so I'll focus my limited time/energy on the 
larger ones.

A percent or two different in the large-ticket items makes a far bigger 
impact to "our" collective wallets than spending huge energy on the 
little stuff.  Case in point: Your complaint about AMEX charges.  Others 
have pointed out that it's .05% of the transaction's total value you're 
worried about.  I bet you can find other more important efficiencies in 
your business that save you far more than the AMEX transaction fee if 
you look hard.  I also understand the "death by a thousand cuts" 
concept, also.


> If it's about different brands, that's ok with me. What's not ok is
> the merchant forced to accept both the reward and non-reward version
> from the same CC company, say VISA. The difference might be small as
> the other messages mentioned, but to me it's still a theft the CC
> companies perpetrate against merchants.
>    

Yes, but at the end of the day, you've done exactly what you say you 
hate... played the game and over-analyzed it.  It's not theft, it's a 
contingency of doing business with the middle-man you choose to use.  
Don't like their terms, call them up and negotiate.  If they say, "no 
exceptions", leave.  It's really that simple.

> If a business (CC company) wants to sell something "at loss" (=give
> you rewards) because it thinks it's a good strategy, that's fine until
> they use their own money and don't force third parts to pay for their
> strategy. So they either have to let merchants refuse "reward VISA"
> while accepting "regular VISA", or give merchants the same price for
> all the versions of the same brand of plastic, or give merchants the
> freedom to charge customers the differently. The fact that the
> difference is small (if Jonathan and Maxwell are correct) doesn't make
> it a right thing to do.
>    

And... if you have "moral issues" with their way of doing business, you 
have the option to walk away.  Your freedom, your rights, nothing are 
infringed.  You choose whether or not to do business with them, as do I.

> About to tipping, even after years of living in Colorado, I still have
> questions. How would you tip a fair (not excellent) restaurant server
> in which the food bill is about $30? I'm often in such a range, and I
> have mixed feelings on how to tip. The $6 doesn't feel enough, but
> it's already 20%, and tipping more than 20% for not outstanding
> service doesn't feel good either. What would you do? What about
> servers that just put the meal in the tray which you then bring to the
> table yourself? How would you tip the server of a coffee shop (not
> bringing the stuff at your table either) for a beverage in the 1-3$
> range? Wouldn't be 20% offensive, and more, well, too much for what
> they're actually doing?
>    

There was a fascinating discussion about this on KOA radio one night 
with all sorts of service workers calling in and discussing it.  
Everyone from low-cost places to a waiter who wouldn't say where he 
worked, but pocketed many hundreds of dollars a night.

Your point is very valid that 20% of a small purchase is far less money 
than 20% of a larger one.  And that low-end food-service workers get 
screwed a bit on tips by the standard "20% rule".  People are lazy and 
the 20% "rule" has become a standard without thinking about the real 
meaning of the numbers.

The first thing to keep in mind is that tips are how we pay for service 
in food-service... no waiter/waitress makes enough base-salary to do 
anything other than slap the food on the table.  And maybe still 
deserves a tip for that, even.

So... on REALLY exorbitant dinners, unless the server was truly 
outstanding, I limit myself  begrudgingly to roughly 15%.  I'd rather 
pay 20% always, but there's a point where you say to yourself, "no 
matter how good he is, that guy didn't do $40 worth of work", you know?  
Note that I did say exorbitant -- you normally won't catch me dining in 
"fine dining" establishments.  In fact, I like diners so much I've 
seriously considered grabbing two or three of those "Route 66 Diner" 
books and heading out for a road trip to see the places and try their 
"grub".  People watching in diners yields far more interesting people 
(and sometimes conversations) than say, Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.  
Generally, people in suits eating dinner are super-boring.  LOL!

On just about anything else, below what I jokingly call the "fancy 
steakhouse" level...  it's at LEAST 20% and if the meal is very cheap, 
like your example, I apply a personal rule that goes something like 
this, "Did that person do more than $6 worth of work for me or make my 
experience enjoyable enough that $6 really doesn't cut it?"

Lately with inflation creeping up in the real world, I also try to keep 
in mind that $6 won't even buy someone a combo meal at McDonalds, to 
keep perspective on tips.  Did this person make this experience worth 
paying them a McDonald's Quarter Pounder Extra Value Meal?  LOL... I 
jest a little bit, but it works for me as a way to determine if I'm 
being stingy.

I've left $10 tips on the table for $10 worth of food, it's all about 
the service level when you get down into the low-end.  An example of a 
place/time where I ALWAYS "over-tip" according to the so-called 20% 
rule: I have a favorite waitress at an IHOP that never misses asking me 
how I'm doing, knows me and my wife by name, never misses refilling my 
coffee cup if she notices it's empty (and this at a restaurant that puts 
the whole pot on the table anyway!) and tells great jokes.  We've known 
her for years, and grieved with her when her sister passed away.  We 
also know the night manager by first name, and would happily have either 
one of them over for dinner at OUR house anytime he wanted or needed 
it.  They're both great people.  I've also met far richer people than me 
who wouldn't tip more than $5 for a $50 meal, and they grumbled about 
it. (Definitely explains how they got there. LOL!)

Anyway, THAT kind of service described above, ALWAYS deserves an 
appropriately high tip.  And we make sure to drop a VERY large tip 
around the holidays for her to enjoy with her family... I can't really 
change her station in life, but a $20 tip on a $20 meal, always made me 
feel good on the very rare occasion it happened when I worked in that 
industry.  It's all very subjective and personal.

(By the way, chefs are underpaid too, and there's not a lot anyone can 
do directly about it, but if a meal is prepared perfectly and tastes 
wonderful, make sure to tell the wait-person to give your compliments to 
the chef.  It's just civil. The same people who'll fawn over a mediocre 
(but free) dinner in a private home, often haven't said a word to a chef 
in their lives.  You know?  Just had to throw that in there.  Now of 
course, you can't get carried away if the food isn't better than average 
on this one, and/or it's none of the chef's doing... I would spew 
compliments about Cracker Barrel's chicken and dumplings for hours, if I 
didn't know it was a corporate recipe and there's not much the chef 
could do to change it.  LOL!)

On the other hand, I tend to be "stingy" at walk-up counters. There's 
little "service" going on there, and I figure the owner needs to know 
that and adjust the server's base-pay appropriately.  Walk up counters 
where you place an order and someone runs a cash register and hands you 
a bag or tray with your meal -- that's not service.

The place that's REALLY confusing is Starbucks on this one.  Placing two 
people behind the counter, one running the register, the other playing 
barrista, having an open tip jar, and selling $4 cups of coffee, is 
really confusing to me.  Which is probably why I rarely go there, and 
never tip there.  Pouring a cup of coffee is not exactly a skill I'm 
interested in tipping on.  I know how to foam my own milk and make a 
cappuccino if the chips are down. LOL!

So... counter "service" to me, personally -- is often not worthy of ANY 
tip.  If the business has those same people coming out into the dining 
area, checking on customers, and doing things for me to make the 
experience better, especially if they require personal interaction, or 
better, the person just offers it as part of picking up the place -- "Is 
everything alright with your meal, sir?" or "Would you like a refill on 
your drink?" --  that qualifies as "tippable" service to me.

And of course there have been days where I couldn't tip properly, but 
still try to get 15% on the table for the server.  I know we went out to 
eat a VERY few times in 2001 after I was laid off (and looked for work 
for a year), and everyone's been there.  We did it just to get me out of 
the house after a while.  You just need a break from staring at the same 
walls and floor after a year at home, doing odd infrequent consulting 
work, and not bringing in a regular paycheck.  I've been there.  We 
didn't leave great tips that year, but we weren't exactly dining at the 
Ritz, either.

If I'm in a situation where I have to short-tip someone,  I'm not shy, 
so I take a moment to actually explain that I really appreciated the 
service and was putting what I could on the table for them that day, and 
that their service meant I'd be back again soon, and I'd make it up to 
them if I saw them.  A civil "thank you" is far better than a short tip 
with no explanation. And you never know, there might be someone like me 
at the next table with a couple extra bucks in my pocket that day, who 
overhears the conversation and leaves that couple extra bucks for your 
server, as a way to make up for their "loss" at the next table over.  
Sometimes, people just "do the right thing" if only they know what's 
going on around them.

So there's my long and boring description of how my brain works on 
"tipping".  Here's my lame-assed attempt to keep it Linux or computer 
topical.  Don't blindly follow any stupid "tip calculator" on any 
computer.  It's not about the math.  :-)  (Engineers: I'm looking at 
you. LOL. Dining with an Engineer who ruins the evening by calculating 
the exact bill down to the damn pennies with his/her iPhone is a serious 
buzzkill after a nice meal.  I've been known to annoy the crap out of 
such Engineers by just handing my credit card to the server and saying, 
"It's on me." And then to the Engineer turned-Accountant at the table... 
"If you feel like calculating your exact share and keeping track of it, 
you can get me back later.  Or not.  Don't care."  Drives 'em nuts.  Had 
one guy actually do it, too. LOL... had the amount he hadn't paid at a 
meal written down in his wallet the next time we went out to eat.  
Seriously.)

People don't want to THINK about tips because they're busy, in a hurry, 
or just can't empathize at all with someone slinging plates of food 
around for a living.  I did it, so I definitely "get it".  I do 
understand (and did as a busboy and waiter in my youth) that there's 
always a percentage of the population that just doesn't "get it", and 
they're going to stiff you on tips, too.  A recent "This American Life" 
had a pizza delivery driver who pointed out that people tip normally for 
pizza, but he gets stiffed whenever he delivers Chicken Wings.  Crazy 
anecdote that I want to ask the next pizza delivery guy I see about, 
just to see if it's common.  Wouldn't that be a fascinating statistical 
outlier?

Even better: Wouldn't the tech support or computer programming 
industries be FASCINATING if they were low-base-pay jobs where tips were 
required to "get a real salary"?  What would the ramifications of such a 
change be?  Wow.  Tips for software that works as expected, first time 
out, or a tip for software that ran without bugs for a year in the 
Christmas card to the programmer?  :-)

Great conversation, sorry it keeps drifting so far afield of the mailing 
list's intended purpose.

Nate