[lug] Opinions on E*Trade dumping Sun for Linux?

[Bryan Field-Elliot]

As I mentioned, I love Java and have used it successfully on probably
15+ projects over the last 3 or so years. But in asking myself why I
love Java (whether because of the language grammar or because of the
rich libraries which come with it standard, as well as J2EE), I found a
roughly 50/50 split. This is what got me interested in the .Net CLI -
that people's work on libraries and other ready-made components can be
done independent of language, and used equally effectively by all
languages which compile to the CLI. At least, that's how the theory
goes, and the article you referenced on javalobby tries to argue that
this is largely a myth. Personally, I don't know, as I haven't looked
deeply into .Net yet.

As for Microsoft sneaking a patent in there or something to otherwise
upset future cross-platform development (e.g. Mono) -- I think they
would have to patent something new, rather than something already
submitted to the ECMA. In which case, Mono and other OS implementations
fork away from Microsoft, having already gotten (for free) what they
mostly wanted in the first place -- the CLI specs.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I would never give .Net a
second glance if it only ran on Windows, but now that projects like Mono
are well off the ground, it deserves a look in my opinion.

The topic which triggered this discussion in the first place was Sun
losing market share, and I maintain that they may in fact lose a lot of
developer mindshare (over the mid term) if .Net lives up to it's hype
(which admittedly wouldn't be consistent with Microsoft's track record).
But what do I know, I'm just a developer interested in new and exciting
tools.

Bryan




On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 22:26, Ed Hill wrote:

    On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 20:58, Bryan Field-Elliot wrote:
    > 
    > I'm curious if anyone in this group has played with .Net, either via
    > Microsoft or via the Mono project?  I love Java and have used it
    > exclusively for the last three years, but the .Net CLI architecture is
    > admittedly compelling. 
    
    
    Huh?  Compelling?  What exactly do you gain?
    
    As a Java programmer, you loose the security model and the platform
    independence.  So no more developing on Linux and running on (almost)
    anything.  And if you're a C++ coder, with the castrated ".NET managed
    C++" you loose multiple inheritance, dynamic typing, and generics
    (b-bye, templates!).  And I doubt that any Mono/Ximian implementation
    would fix these problems because the CLS/CLR (AFAIK) simply doesn't have
    the design or expressive power to support them.
    
    So before anyone gets carried away with unbridled optimism such as:
    
    http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-February/msg00031.html
    http://eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/bmarticles/sd/dotnet.html
    
    they should learn about some of the non-trivial down-sides:
    
    http://www.javalobby.org/clr.html
    
    
    And keep in mind the unchanging goal of Microsoft: enslaving you to
    their platform.  But don't take it personally!  Its just a business
    model...  ;-)
    
    Ed
    
    ps - I'm afraid Alan Cox's assessment of Mono:
    
           "Be assured that the day they decide you are a nuisance 
            the VM will acquire a patented neat feature that kills 
            you off.  Just ask the Samba people."
    
         will come true.  For all Miguel knows, many such claims are 
         already submitted and slithering their way through the US PTO.
    
    
    -- 
    Edward H. Hill III, PhD
    Post-Doctoral Researcher   |  Email:       ed at eh3.com, ehill at mines.edu
    Division of ESE            |  URL:         http://www.eh3.com
    Colorado School of Mines   |  Phone:       303-273-3483
    Golden, CO  80401          |  Fax:         303-273-3311
    Key fingerprint = 5BDE 4DA1 66BE 4F7B BC17  3A0C 932B 7266 1E76 F123
    
    
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