Ogg Devices, was: [lug] [Fwd: Adios, Internet Radio]

Harris, James James_Harris at maxtor.com
Thu Apr 11 10:06:00 MDT 2002 

Thanks for sending those examples Rob, I'm really glad to see someone like
the BBC taking advantage of OGG.  On a related note, I recently went on a
search for OGG empowered devices.  I was hideously frustrated with the
result of a question I posted to RIO about their support of the format.
They have their MP3 Discman which meets all of my requirements for portable
audio, except that it does not support OGG.  I sent an email originally to
support, but then to marketing asking them if they had any plans to support
it.  (This device supports flash updates via CD, so adding support should be
feasible.)

The answer I got back from support was: nope, don't plan to, bugger off.  I
had asked them to forward my mail to marketing if they didn't' support it,
but they never forwarded it.  So, I sent an email directly.
The answer I got from marketing was: nope, don't plan to, we don't care,
bugger off.

I found that really really disappointing.  I know this question has been
asked in the past, but does anyone know of any comparable OGG empowered,
maybe Linux based, Discman type devices out there?  I find it really
disappointing that such a great format has not been fully embraced yet.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Riggs [mailto:rob at pangalactic.org] 
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 09:45
To: lug at lug.boulder.co.us
Subject: Re: [lug] [Fwd: Adios, Internet Radio]


Internet Radio is not dead. Internet Radio in the US may by dying, but the
RIAA does not (yet) have a worldwide reach, and most other western countries
will deal with this issue in a far more sane manner than the US.

This article is both sensationalistic and myopic. The whole of the internet
does not fall under US jurisdiction. There are lots of equally good European
sites out there that I listen to regularly and they won't have to face the
dangers of US politics.

In related news, BBC Radio is testing OGG streams:

http://support.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/oggurl/6music.ogg.m3u
http://support.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/oggurl/radio4.ogg.m3u

You'll need the Ogg/Vorbis RC3 packages installed to listen in.

-Rob

On Tue, 2002-04-02 at 22:38, fschmid at archenergy.com wrote:
> Another victim to the DMCA...
> Ferdinand
> --
> Ferdinand Schmid
> Architectural Energy Corporation
> Celebrating 20 Years of Improving Building Energy Performance
> http://www.archenergy.com
> ----
> 

> From: eWEEK News <eNewsandViews at eletters1.ziffdavis.com>
> To: FSCHMID at ARCHENERGY.COM
> Subject: Adios, Internet Radio
> Date: 03 Apr 2002 00:22:43 -0500
> 
> =========================================================
> --------   ENEWS AND VIEWS   --------
> =========================================================
> Delivering breaking news, as well as analysis and
> commentary, from eWEEK.com
> 
> April 3, 2002 // Volume 2, Issue 41
> 
> =========================================================
> In This Edition
> =========================================================
> --OUR TAKE
> Adios, Internet Radio
> 
> --NEWS
> 1. Additional IE/Apache Problems Surface 
> 2. Pair of Office XP Bugs Uncovered
> 3. Intel to Cut Chip Pricing by 57 Percent
> 
> --NOW AT EWEEK.COM
> --ELSEWHERE ON ZIFF DAVIS
> 
> To visit eweek.com now, click here:
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0eSi0AI
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> # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = # = #
> 
> =========================================================
> Our Take
> =========================================================
> ADIOS, INTERNET RADIO
> 
> -- By Chris Gonsalves --
> 
> I'm a fan of Stardog, personally. Maybe you like CelticGrove
> or BlueCityJazz. Doesn't matter. In a few weeks, listening
> to music on Internet radio will be dead as a mackerel.
> 
> Shame really. The Internet radio business has been growing
> at something like 100 percent annually and is thriving in
> genres underrepresented on FM stations, such as classical,
> blues, jazz and gospel. Doesn't matter. The government,
> acting once again in the special interest of the music
> industry, is about to crush the idea.
> 
> In the latest example of groundless regulation and greed
> interfering with free commerce, the U.S. Copyright Office is
> considering a proposal that would force Internet radio
> stations to pay exorbitant royalties to record companies and
> performers, something their over-the-air counterparts are
> not required to do.
> 
> Where AM and FM radio stations pay a small fee to music
> composers, Internet radio stations are facing fees of up to
> 14 cents per listener per song. That fee would bankrupt
> nearly all of the Web broadcasters operating today,
> according to the group saveinternetradio.org.
> 
> Copyright officials have until May 21 to make the call, but
> considering that the recommended shakedown came from the
> advisory group they created--the Copyright Arbitration
> Royalty Panel (CARP for short)--it's clear the rubber stamp
> is warmed up and waiting.
> 
> How did we get to this point? Even if you thought Napster
> and others of their ilk were the bad guys, how did Internet
> radio become to the target of the Harry Fox crowd? It began
> in October 1998, when Congress passed the "Digital
> Millennium Copyright Act" (DMCA), which gave record
> companies the green light to collect royalties when music
> was played via "digital media" such as Internet radio.
> 
> It's an interesting departure from a music industry
> standpoint. Record companies and performers don't get
> royalties from AM and FM radio play because the copyright
> folks consider the promotional value of the airplay payment
> enough. So why the switch for the Internet? The theory
> bought by Congress is that Internet listeners can make
> "perfect copies" of the songs being streamed, and those
> copies could hurt CD sales. That would be a good argument,
> except that, as anyone who listens to Internet Radio knows,
> you can't make "perfect copies." You can't easily make
> copies at all. And if you can, they are of too low a sound
> quality to be useful in creating your own CDs. What you get
> sounds pretty much like those cassette tapes you used to
> make off the FM radio. Not great.
> 
> Never ones to let facts stand in their way, the solons
> assigned to the CARP published their recommended royalty
> schedule in late February. As the basis for the outrageous
> fee schedule, the CARP report cites a $5 billion deal
> between Yahoo! and Broadcast.com. The result was a figure
> that would leave most Internet broadcasters, who have
> attracted precious little advertising, liable for between
> 200 and 300 percent of their gross revenues. And, oh, by the
> way, the fees are retroactive to October 1998. According to
> Internet radio industry figures, a midsize independent
> Webcaster with an average audience of 1,000 would owe
> $525,600. 
> 
> See you later Stardog. It was nice knowing you.
> 
> To e-mail eWEEK Deputy News Editor Chris Gonsalves,
> click here:
> mailto:chris_gonsalves at ziffdavis.com
> 
> =========================================================
> News
> =========================================================
> 1. ADDITIONAL IE/APACHE PROBLEMS SURFACE 
> 
> eWEEK Labs' Timothy Dyck last month advised readers to use a
> combination of HTTPS and basic authentication to get secure
> log-in functionality that works with all browsers and Web
> servers. It turns out that this approach won't work all the
> time, either. To read the story, click here:
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gLO0Al
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 2. PAIR OF OFFICE XP BUGS UNCOVERED
> 
> A well-known security researcher has released an advisory
> about--and exploit code for--two new unpatched flaws in
> portions of Microsoft Corp.'s Office XP application suite.
> The two bugs are closely related and, if used in concert,
> could enable an attacker to gain complete control over a
> vulnerable machine. To read the story, click here:
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gJj0AC
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 3. INTEL TO CUT CHIP PRICING BY 57 PERCENT
> 
> Intel is set to cut prices on its top-performing Pentium 4
> chips by as much as 25 percent this month and up to 57
> percent this spring. To read the story, click here:
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gJm0AF
> 
> =========================================================
> Now at eWEEK.com
> =========================================================
> 1. PETER COFFEE: THE LONG ROAD TO SIMPLE SYSTEMS
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gLP0Am
> 
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> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gLQ0An
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> 3. A SECURITY EXTENSION FOR MICROSOFT OPERATIONS MANAGER 
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gLR0Ao
> 
> 4. SUN BUILDS OUT JAVA TOOL SETS
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gJn0AG
> 
> 5. HP BOARD BALKS AT HEWLETT RENOMINATION
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0fva0Ak
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> 6. NAI TOOL SCANS FOR NETWORK CRACKS
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gJk0AD
> 
> =========================================================
> Elsewhere on Ziff Davis
> =========================================================
> 1. JOHN C. DVORAK: NANODRIVE USES INSECT PARTS 
> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gJr0AK 
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> 2. ULTRAPORTABLES: HOW LOW CAN THEY GO? 
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> http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0DDhnJ0DUm0gJs0AL 
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