[lug] IP: Open source in government (fwd from: dfarber at earthlink.net)
Hugh Brown
hugh at vecna.com
Thu Jul 4 22:45:18 MDT 2002
I have a little experience with this since we have some military
contracts where I work. At most of the military sites everything is
usually windows based (or mainframe or hp-ux). Since we are a linux
loving lot, we have been developing jsp web applications with
tomcat/java running on linux. So far we have been successful in telling
the various military folks that we need a linux box to deploy on and
they have gotten them for us. These have not been official deployments
but it is a foot in the door.
A little back GCN (http://www.gcn.com/21_11/news/18671-1.html) had a
top news story of the various military academies having a contest to see
who could keep their systems up against an NSA attack. Looking
carefully at an accompanying photo (in the print version, not the link I
gave you), there was a computer in the lab that had a gnome desktop
showing on the monitor.
It looks like small inroads are being made. It's just behind the
scenes, much like Linux did in the corporate world 2-3 yrs ago.
FWIW,
Hugh
On Thu, 2002-07-04 at 04:14, neelsmith74 at netscape.net wrote:
> Open Source in Government
>
> Since my short time with City government (1year) and over 6 years in Federal Government, Open Source is still that "mystical thing." They have heard about it, but are not quite sure about what it is, stands for, and the benefits it truly provides. It also seems the IT staff is still behind about 3-5yrs. Government will stick with what they have and other government bodies/organizations are using. No one wants to be the first to try this "radical" new idea of running open source. I am by no means an expert, but in the year I have worked within City government I have taken almost a full year to turn over some programs to Open Source. Not so much in development, but in politics. Everyone wants his or her hand in the pie (even people who have no clue and should not be involved), but no one will ever want to take a risk. To sum it up: Open source is still seen as a risk; a risk of the unknown, a risk of being different, a risk of being the first to try new technology. It seems grim for now, but there is hope. It is just a slow, very slow progression of learning. Not just the IT staff, but also the Council, Mayors, Governors, Commanders, Directors, and Generals...so on.
>
> For all this what have I managed, an Open Source web platform for both the intranet and extranet. This includes all software for programming, running, designing and coding. Not much to most, but two Linux boxes sitting next to two NT nodes sure was a feat. 100% Microsoft servers to 50%. There is even another box coming running Java & Linux (Apache Tomcat) for ArcIMS. That would tip the scales in favor of Open Source for once, server side. We will even be putting Open Source programs on the NT nodes, so there is hope. I also work as a contractor at IBM Global, which seems to be a very different front. IBM (the monolithic giant at one time) is very pro-active Open Source. It has truly blown me away what they are pushing on the Fortune 500. Even the intranet web portal is pushing propaganda for Open Source. It is amazing. They will very soon have Linux partions (LPAR) capability of running Mainframes OS/390, Midrange AS/400 and Intel Servers that is cross platform compatible. The only US governmennt (Europe seems more open to Open Source) I see going to Open Source now is the "tester" of the group.
> NSA, CIA, FBI (more as a precaution of the unknown, then as a true implementation of Open Source), some Special Operations Group, and the few truly large IT sectors/department within government. This is since they have the staff to support, understand and advocate Open Source.
>
> If you mention the subject to Government bodies, they seem to be interested and act somewhat positive about the subject. However, ask them what they specifically plan to use or are using and that’s another story. As far as people dropping out for speaking on Open Source, well that is due to they do not want the 100% truth about OpenSource in Government coming out; more like part of the truth. Microsoft is also playing a huge part by pushing the "Anti-OpenSource" campaign. They are playing on the “supposed” security issues it brings. This is confusing the government bodies. It's is a good argument from Microsoft’s view. The code is open for anyone to see and learn to crack. Our "Microsoft" proprietary code is not. What they do tell is the other half of the story about more eyes reviewing a product in OpenSource and everyone giving back. Changes come in hours sometimes, not days and months. They also do not tell them they cover up security flaws sometimes for months/years, since no one can see their code (“they are only cracking the code”). With OpenSource there is no cover up and it provide a very positive message back to citizens!
>
> PS-If you still need a speaker for the event I feel out new IT Director for the City would be up for it. Very well educated on Open Source and what it brings.
>
> “Truly the fear of the unknown and precaution of politics in a Microsoft world (at least for now)!”
>
> Nate NeelSmith
> neelsmith74 at netscape.net
> webmaster at northglenn.org
> natesmit at us.ibm.com
>
>
>
> Evelyn Mitchell <efm at tummy.com> wrote:
>
> >Anyone up for talking about this?
> >
> >----- Forwarded message from David Farber <dfarber at earthlink.net> -----
> >
> >Delivered-From: owner-ip-sub-1-outgoing at admin.listbox.com
> >Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:07:23 -0400
> >From: "David Farber" <dfarber at earthlink.net>
> >Importance: Normal
> >Subject: IP: Open source in government
> >To: ip-sub-1 at majordomo.pobox.com
> >Reply-To: farber at cis.upenn.edu
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=6.0
> > tests=none
> > version=2.31
> >X-QMScan-UniqueID: 518-3d207e7e-1683f672 at backup.tummy.com
> >
> >Copy me please.
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: "Tim O'Reilly" <tim at oreilly.com>
> >Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 09:00:12
> >To: Dave Farber <farber at cis.upenn.edu>
> >Subject: Open source in government
> >
> >Dave,
> >
> >I've recently had two speakers for the upcoming Open Source Convention
> >(http://conferences.oreilly.com/os2002) who were planning to talk about the
> >use of open source in government suddenly cancel on me, saying that they
> >were in trouble with their bosses.
> >
> >I've written an article about this (actually, it's the second page of a
> >longer article about how open source shifts power from software vendors to
> >users), that some of your readers might find interesting. It's at at
> >http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/06/28/vendor.html .
> >
> >But I'm also looking for more information about what's going on right now
> >with open source in government. There's clearly a lot of support, but
> >increasing signs of pushback. I'm wondering if this is the result of some
> >of the recent Microsoft lobbying and FUD (see the article for details), or
> >if something else is going on.
> >
> >I'd love it if your readers could shed any light. I also do think that
> >there's a good opportunity here for some investigative journalists to check
> >in to some of the lobbying that's going on.
> >
> >--
> >Tim O'Reilly @ O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.
> >1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472
> >1-707-829-0515 http://www.oreilly.com, http://tim.oreilly.com
> >
> >
> >For archives see:
> >http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
> >
> >----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >--
> >Regards, tummy.com, ltd
> >Evelyn Mitchell Linux Consulting since 1995
> >efm at tummy.com Senior System and Network Administrators
> > http://www.tummy.com/
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