[lug] BVSD Windows vs Mac craziness

[Nate Duehr]

Tkil wrote:
> Nate> Let parents spend that money on a religious, or highly academic,
> Nate> or even an old-fashioned Reading and Writing type of school of
> Nate> their choice.  
> 
> My tax money will go to religious schools when you pry it out of my
> cold dead hands, etc.
> 
> Nate> Test those kids with their "scary" specializations with the same
> Nate> standard tests kids at public schools are tested with, and what
> Nate> do you get?  Better students overall.  Almost always.
> 
> Make a thorough discussion of evolution a part of those tests.  And a
> good ethical essay on both sides of the abortion debate.  And whether
> rational people build houses for their imaginary friends.  And a
> lengthly chunk on comparative religions.
> 
> Better yet, make sure that everyone can write a supporting essay on at
> least three radically different religions, particularly excluding the
> religion they were raised in.

All of the above, sounds like a religion unto itself.  Possibly even its
own form of intolerance.  :-)

(I'm not saying I disagree with anything you said, it's just that it's
just as bad as the folks that want religious things taught.)

By the way, many teachers in today's system would be unable to do any of
what you recommend up there anyway.  And again, if the school couldn't
meet the basic standards set somewhere along the line by society
at-large about what an "education" is -- they wouldn't qualify for tax
money, students or no students.  There'd be limits to the insanity.

> Nate> It's always about "follow the money" whether we're talking
> Nate> business or government.
> 
> Nate> Move the money with the students, and this problem starts to fix
> Nate> itself.  Parents deserve choice in schools.  Competition breeds
> Nate> better business.
> 
> Ok, well, if competition builds better _____, let's get rid of all
> subsidies and protections and tax shelters.

Heh.  Specifics are easier to deal with.

> Churches have to compete too!  Let's get rid of all the tax breaks
> that churches get.  And even donations to churches (which fund the
> "cheaper in dollars if not cost to rest of society" parochial schools)
> shouldn't be tax deductable -- they're competing against for-profit
> schools, so let them pay taxes too.

Actually I agree with you here.  "Separation of church and state"
shouldn't have included getting goods and services without paying the
SAME taxes other businesses do.  (Because underneath it all, churches
are still businesses... faith or no faith.)  Ironically, many church
teachings in various religions would tell their followers that to
unfairly take advantage of any other person, would be wrong.  The
churches should be voluntarily paying taxes by their own moral codes...
heh.  The irony is interesting.

> And since competition breeds better workers, let's put your IT job up
> for competition anywhere in the world with no protections at all.
> Still in favor of unbridled competition?  Aver that you've not ever
> once complained about outsourcing or high-paying IT/CS jobs moving to
> India or wherever.

Truthfully, if I can't do the job, I can't do the job.  I see
outsourcing to India for what it is -- a desperate measure by companies
that can't sustain it long-term.  Customer backlash against hearing a
person with a thick accent they can't understand, who is reading from a
script and can't assist them properly is growing.  Companies will start
to quietly move call centers and support organizations back to the
States as customers complain louder and louder.

> Nate> Tie the money to the student.
> 
> Define "successful student" then.  Happy?  Good job after college?
> College at all?  Reading levels?  Critical thinking skills?  How do
> you test that?  Breadth of knowledge?  Understanding of the world?
> Tolerance?  Intolerance?

The Brits have some interesting thoughts.  Not every student is ALLOWED
to go on to higher education -- they test and place people in areas of
aptitude, is my understanding.  I've talked with friends from GB that
say they wouldn't be the EXCELLENT technicians they are today if they
hadn't been placed in vocational type schooling (something our academia
illuminati public school systems tend to shun) early.

> Nate> (Additionally, teachers would also lose things like "tenure" in
> Nate> situations like this, 
> 
> And tenure was originally put in place so that teachers could teach
> unpopular but still true and correct knowledge.  The fact that it's
> been abused is only obvious now -- at the time it was put into place,
> it was there to fight other abuses as well.

It's always been abused both ways, to be truthful.  And just like in the
work world, well-respected older employees DO have some leeway to say
things the younger folks don't.  They have to build up trust with their
bosses and their bosses have to learn over long periods of time that
those older workers ultimate goal is to better things.

> Nate> but the best teachers would be rewarded monetarily just like in
> Nate> the standard workplace.  Top performers get paid.  Mediocre
> Nate> performers can usually survive and make a decent wage.  Poor
> Nate> performers leave the business.)
> 
> See above.  Define performance.  It's not easy.

That's my whole point -- let the parents decide what performance means
for their children, not the state.  Set standards that MUST happen, and
let the schools figure out the rest on a school-by-school basis.

> t.
> 
> p.s. Note that I'm now a parent, and I share your disgust/dislike of
>      the current public school system.  All of the fixes currently
>      seem scarier than the problem, though.

Why choice would be scary for you, I don't "get".  If the State suddenly
said "Here's X number of dollars for your child's education, and you are
allowed to spend it at any school in the State that meets X criteria"...
wouldn't you go find the best you thought you could find?  If you had a
few extra bucks, would you consider investing them directly in your
child?  I think you would.  I know you would.  It's not scary.

Continuing under a Teacher's Union and NATIONAL monopoly with no hope of
changing it, ever... that's scary.

Nate