[lug] OLPC Will Ship With Windows XP

Fri May 16 18:06:03 MDT 2008

I'd like to know more about why Egypt and other countries said they
wanted Windows.  I think there may be a political economy angle here
that Microsoft is exploiting with these governments to get them to
force Windows on their people.  

2-3 years ago, a legislator in a south american country accused MSFT
of acting like a drug dealer -- giving Windows free to the govt, which
then required all businesses filing electronic papers or exchanging
documents with the govt to comply with their Windows-only standard.
MSFT sued the legislator for defamation under a law in that country
but the suit was thrown out because the law was not meant to protect
commercial enterprises from criticism.

Because Windows costs quite a lot of money, and linux generally does
not, it seems unlikely that a linux vendor would throw in free
software, OS, and hardware to the govt, just to hook the entire
govt-business community on their OS.  But Microsoft has in the past
and would gladly continue to do this.  This is convenient for a govt
ministry, because they don't need to request funding from their
legislators, and in turn they don't need to find the revenues for
computer upgrades.  

In that sense, Microsoft is indirectly taxing these countries'
business communities in exchange for giving away computing power to
their govts.  Both these govts and MSFT might prefer this arrangement
to an alternative in which the young people are primarily users of
linux. 

But I imagine most of the readers on this list would agree that one of
the costs of this quid pro quo arrangement between govts of poor
countries and Microsoft is a slower rate of economic growth of those
countries. 

One thing I liked about the OLPC program being linux-only is that it
would hopefully build a network of linux users in those countries, and
eventually the network externalities would overcome the initial cost
of not having compatibility with the latest .doc or .xls format, etc.
Why should the 'younger' economies imitate the infrastructure choices
of 'more advanced' economies even when the learning that has occurred
in the mean time suggests different choices will produce better
results? 

Dave

* dio2002 at indra.com <dio2002 at indra.com> [2008-05-16 17:22:25 -0600]:

> how do i reply to this on a linux based group :-).
>
> i for one believe that the altruistic and potential benefit for linux only 
> on these laptops could be enormous in the long run.  for both linux 
> (especially linux) and for the kids or adults that wind up using them.
>
> that said, i think what we forget though is that we live in the first world 
> and have a lot of choice.  we can learn both linux AND windows if we choose. 
>  we can love what we want about each, choose to support each in our own 
> businesses or where we work. we can avoid one or the other if we want as 
> well.
>
> lets face it though, some of us just use our computer and OS of choice 
> purely for entertainment. i'd lump most email into that as well.  fact is we 
> spend a lot of time on our boxes d*cking around with music, photos, videos, 
> etc.  stuff that we do in our free time AFTER we've already made our money 
> elsewhere.
>
> i'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the third worlder that might be 
> receiving one of these laptops.  although i'm sure entertainment will be an 
> inevitable result of using these laptops, i can't help but think the real 
> motivation of the project might be to have these laptops help bring these 
> populations out of poverty.  either through outright businesses or the 
> communications and information capability that they provide via internet 
> assuming they can be networked reliably.
>
> if i was personally on the receiving end of one of these laptops, i'd like 
> it to help me from a business standpoint.  i'd want to know how i could use 
> this to help put myself and my country on an equal footing with the rest of 
> the planet.  not just so we can become another consumer of entertainment to 
> idle away my time but so that we could potentially create, deliver and offer 
> a useful product or service that might be consumed, domestically or 
> otherwise.
>
> putting windoze on these boxes definitely decreases the entry to market for 
> some of these potential products in many ways.  i also know the devil in the 
> details can be extended further when you consider that mostly commercial sw 
> and usually MS sw at that runs on MS OS based boxes.  that definitely DOES 
> suck.
>
> but i can't help but think having an MS OS choice results in some real 
> benefits to these folks.  it helps them learn and see how the rest of the 
> business world really works.  i know you and i might prefer linux for many 
> things but statistics still show it to be in the overwhelming minority as 
> far as desktop usage.  ironically, in that capacity i think it helps put 
> these folks on a more even keel if we're really concerned about lifting them 
> out of poverty.
>
> for instance, if the first step in lifting them out of poverty is that they 
> might work in a support call center some day, it's probably very beneficial 
> to know how the other guy on the end of the line is using his desktop.  
> linux doesn't really help here imho.
>
> on the other hand, linux is free.  due to it's open source nature, it in 
> theory probably provides the ultimate really good business opportunities for 
> these third world entrepreneurs to be.  for example they can create web 
> apps, etc.  if they should decide to create something used domestically out 
> of the knowledge set they aquire, it allows them to not have to worry about 
> catering to the MS bias elsewhere in the world.
>
> that would be really cool and i think is where a lot of linux folks get 
> pissed off about this whole thing.  folks wonder how it would have been if 
> linux had been mature around the time MS appeared on the scene.  it's pretty 
> easy to imagine no MS today and a lot of free software.
>
> but that's not the case.  and whose to say that linux wouldn't have evolved 
> into the commercial behemoth that is MS today.  linux really was a mindset 
> that arose in opposition to MS.  if there was no MS, maybe linux wouldn't 
> exist in it's current form.  maybe something called "opensource ms" would be 
> nipping at commercial linux these days. entirely different topic.
>
> back to the topic ;-).  the learning curve is probably a lot steeper with 
> linux.  and it's probably going to require an online link to download the 
> pages to help one come up to speed on how to use the underlying 
> technologies.  a dedicated internet link doesn't come with any of these 
> laptops so that's a challenge.
>
> i don't have all the answers but something tells me that having a choice in 
> this case which most of these people don't normally have is probably a good 
> thing here.  we have it.  a lot of us make money based on the plethora of 
> tech choices that exist.  why shouldn't they be able to play on the same 
> field?
>
> i will make that statement even though i'm sure MS probably doesn't think of 
> it in the same altruistic way i do.  i'm sure some bean counter is thinking 
> mostly in terms of potential future customers and sales.
>
> as i said, linux probably has the most upside but having choices can be a 
> good thing, especially when you don't normally have them.
>
> as a side note, i haven't followed this project as closely as some of you 
> but i read an article yesterday which said that adding MS to the equation 
> only added an additional $7 or $8 to the laptop cost.  if that's true and 
> it's always hard to tell because everyone is probably blowing smoke 
> depending on what side of the fence you stand on, the $100 laptop that is 
> now $200 shouldn't all be leveled on MS.
>
> anyway.  just something to chew on.
>
> disclaimer: i am so definitely not a MS supporter. at all.  i'm just not a 
> linux bigot either, even though i know it excels on many fronts. :-)
>
>
> Steve A Hart wrote:
>> Did I read that right?  Someone actually said that they WANT windows?!?!?  
>> I'm thinking you're on the wrong user group my friend!
>> Steve
>> kevin kempter wrote:
>>> y, I'm in the same boat, I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than have 
>>> to run windows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 16, 2008, at 1:55 PM, Stephen Queen wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It seems that the developing world wants exactly the same as the rest of 
>>>>> us:
>>>>> Windows.
>>>>
>>>> I would not put myself into the set, "the rest of us". I do not want 
>>>> Windows.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
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____________________________
Dave Kritzberg
http://dijon.colorado.edu/
Dave.Kritzberg at gmail.com