[lug] Credit - was: [Letting folks pay from the web.]

[Davide Del Vento]

>> I don't know who in the heck invented this thing. It's clear that
>> somebody has to pay for these "rewards", and it's clear that the cc
>> company is not the one that will. In my opinion the reward cards
>> should be outlawed - no brainer.
>
> Yeah, because what we need is more Government regulation.

Well, I guess as somebody who grew up in Europe I'll look socialist to
many for long time :-)
Let me be clear. I often cite the nation were I grew up, but I hate it
and I think that US is overall so much better! I do think that US is a
great nation and I do love it. That's doesn't mean that everything is
perfect, and that's why sometimes I make this comparisons on topics on
which in the US there could be progress, IMHO.

Now, even as an advocate of small government, you'll agree that lack
of regulation would be as bad as too much regulation. I'd hate a
government that would tell me what job should I do (or even worst, who
should I marry). But I'd hate also a government that wouldn't
guarantee that the food I buy is safe for my health (if consumed in
"reasonable" doses, I mean). Where should a regulation stop? It's a
difficult balance to strike and that's why discussions like this one
are important and healthy for a democracy (even if OT in this list).

Now, back to the reward cards, what's wrong with them might be clear
if you re-read Landon's post: thirds parts are forced to accept them
and pay for them. If Borders wants to give away books for free to
attract customers, that's fine: it's their money. But here the credit
cards companies are giving money "back" to their customers stealing it
from the third parts, namely other businesses. Like Borders forcing
the the publishers to pay for the books the bookstore is giving for
free (and I stress "forcing", not making agreements).  You'll probably
argue that nobody is forced to accept credit cards in its stores, and
that's true. But what is outrageous IMHO is that the deal is
all-or-nothing. If a business want to accept my "regular, fair fees
VISA", it must accept your "rewards, outrageous fees VISA". Now,
that's clearly not like being forced to marry somebody you don't like,
or being scared to eat something contaminated from bacteria, and
that's why we are arguing. I think "reward cards" are wrong, because
they reward "being smart enough to game the system", and not "fairness
in business practices", like your other message demonstrate. I guess
you are fine with your "game against the system", but as time passes,
I guess the game will be harder and more complex, stealing resources
for better activities. A simpler, cleaner and fairer system would not
require time and resources to be gamed, and those resources can be
spent in better activities.
Now you might argue that enforcing my law could be more complex than
the problem it would solve or even impossible, and if you'd
demonstrate it'd buy it. But if you discard it just because you don't
like having more regulation, I think you are just doing useless
old-school partisan politics.

To Jeffrey:
What you said about telco and credit cards is basically correct. I
could tell more, especially on telco, but that would be an OT in the
OT, so I'll spare it for the next cafe talk we'll have together.

> The cards that were becoming popular there, instead (maybe still are, for all I
> know -- Davide can probably tell us), were cards that had chips on them with
> information about things like your account balance.

I've never seen the cards-with-chips, but heard the rumors. The
payment cards we had were basically the same as chip ones, though: the
amount of money in them was just written on the magnetic band. They
say it was easy to re-write your card, and probably it was for
organized crime (not for geek, sparkfun wasn't available). But it was
easier to just steal and sell original cards then trying to create and
sell counterfeit ones.
At present Italy has the same system as US, but debit cards are much
more common (and cheaper for the customers) than credit cards. And
some debit cards are on "circuit" incompatible with VISA/MC/AMEX, but
incredibly cheaper for the business (and free for the customers), so
that's the most commonly accepted (and unaccessible to foreigners,
because offered only through Italian banks).

Bye,
;Dav